Coming to terms with racial identity and our role in systemic inequity is a challenging but vital part of reclaiming ourselves. Sonya and Emily are joined by special guest Fatima Mann, co-founder of Love and Healing Work.
Together we are talking about deconstructing our identities so that we can reclaim our true self.
Fatima brings an understanding informed by trauma and healing, to help us understand why we need to reckon with race, when it’s okay to unsubscribe from the boxes society puts us in, and taking care of ourselves and our bodies builds the foundation for appreciating others.
Join us as we discuss:
- 05:09 The social construction of racial identity, and how to opt out.
- 08:28 Developing a consensual relationship with ourselves.
- 12:47 Performative displays versus actual self development work.
- 15:14 How to think about Investing in ourselves and our relationships.
- 27:17 The crucial difference between discomfort and harm in difficult conversations.
Resources mentioned in the show: (If appropriate)
- The book Anger: Wisdom for Cooling the Flames, by Thích Nhất Hạnh https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/95734.Anger
- Staci K. Haines, co-founder of generative somatics, and author of The Politics of Trauma. https://thepoliticsoftrauma.com/about
Learn more about Sonya, Emily & Special Guest Fatima Mann:
—> Sonya Stattmann is the host & creator of Reclaiming Ourselves™. She is a TEDx & corporate speaker and has been working with leaders around personal development for the last 22 years. She teaches workshops & offers small group programs around emotional intelligence, transformational & embodied leadership, and energy management. You can find more about her here:
Website: https://www.sonyastattmann.com/
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonyastattmann/
—> Emily Soccorsy [So-KOR-SEE], co-host of Reclaiming Ourselves, believes branding is how people experience what you believe. As owner and CEO of Root + River, a brand strategy team, Emily uses her talents to help leaders uncover the foundations of their brand: message, audience, differentiators, and overall brand strategy. She’s also an author, speaker, poet, artist, and mom of two daughters (and a 130-pound Great Pyrenees named Archie) and partner to her husband of over 20 years. You can find more about her here:
Website: https://rootandriver.com/
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilysoccorsy/
—> Fatima Mann is an innovator, thought leader, healer and organizer. Utilizing nature based and trauma informed practices to plant seeds of cultural mindfulness, she provides the tools to embrace cultural competency and inclusivity within organizations, groups, practices, policies, and procedures. Fatima Mann is the co-birther and Director of Love and Healing Work and is an expert in cultural mindfulness, healing within systems, and human-centered approaches. You can find more about her here:
Website: https://loveandhealingwork.com/
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fatima-mann-2ab12528/
What you can do next:
- For more episodes, opportunities and information on the hosts, visit http://reclaimingourselvespodcast.com/
- Love the podcast? Get episodes delivered to your inbox with articles related to the topics we talk about. You can sign up at http://reclaimingourselvespodcast.com/
- Need a little weekly magic? Sign up for Worthy Love Notes & weekly affirmations here https://www.sonyastattmann.com/self-worth-affirmations-2/
Thank you for being you. We are so honored to have you as a listener!
Transcript
some people think like it's so easy to kind of switch our
Sonya Stattmann:programming or to switch these things that are within ourselves, but it takes time,
Sonya Stattmann:it takes patience, like you were saying.
Sonya Stattmann:You know, it takes a quality of attention.
Sonya Stattmann:It takes prioritizing for us to be able to reprogram something that we've been
Sonya Stattmann:sitting in for a really, really long time.
Fatima Mann:And Grace, right?
Fatima Mann:Cause we also in in society, Makes you feel like you should get it?
Fatima Mann:Like when you start, like, what's wrong with me?
Fatima Mann:Like, hold on, wait.
Fatima Mann:Like you were this way for how many years and you just started this
Fatima Mann:practice like a couple of months ago.
Fatima Mann:Like, have grace for yourself.
Sonya Stattmann:If you know there is something deep inside of you
Sonya Stattmann:that is yearning to be seen, to be known, and to have expression.
Sonya Stattmann:If there's something you need to reclaim and remember: maybe it's your
Sonya Stattmann:power or your purpose, your gifts.
Sonya Stattmann:This is the podcast for you.
Sonya Stattmann:Welcome to Reclaiming Ourselves.
Sonya Stattmann:I'm your host, Sonya Stattmann and I'm honored to have three amazing
Sonya Stattmann:co-hosts, Laura Shook-Guzman, Belinda Haan, and Emily Soccorsy, here with
Sonya Stattmann:me on this journey to self discovery.
Sonya Stattmann:Every week we're gonna help you unravel and remember what it means to reclaim
Sonya Stattmann:yourself, to own who you are, to recognize your innate worth and greatness.
Sonya Stattmann:Now this podcast is a deep dive into self-development,
Sonya Stattmann:healing, and empowerment.
Sonya Stattmann:So hold on.
Sonya Stattmann:Here we go.
Sonya Stattmann:Hi, and welcome back to Reclaiming Ourselves.
Sonya Stattmann:I'm so excited today because I have Emily Ursi in the house
Sonya Stattmann:and we have a special guest, and
Sonya Stattmann:I'm gonna actually pass it over
Sonya Stattmann:to Emily to introduce our guests and tell you a little bit
Sonya Stattmann:about the amazing topic that we're going to dive into today.
Sonya Stattmann:So Emily, welcome.
Emily Soccorsy:Hello.
Emily Soccorsy:It's so good to be with you both and I'm so excited to bring this
Emily Soccorsy:topic into the conversation.
Emily Soccorsy:our guest today is Fatima
Emily Soccorsy:Man Fatima is a special person to me that outside of that, she's an
Emily Soccorsy:expert in cultural mindfulness, healing within organizational
Emily Soccorsy:infrastructures and human centered.
Emily Soccorsy:Human centered approaches to really touching people's hearts and minds.
Emily Soccorsy:I would call her a
Emily Soccorsy:visionary.
Emily Soccorsy:She's definitely a leader In addition to those
Emily Soccorsy:labels, she's also a lawyer, a yoga instructor, and founder of Direct and
Emily Soccorsy:Director of Community Advocacy and Healing Project, and she does a ton of relief work
Emily Soccorsy:through that, So it's really incredible.
Emily Soccorsy:Fatima is, is invited into this conversation today,
Emily Soccorsy:Sonya, to really kind of dig
Emily Soccorsy:into this idea of understanding how our racial identity and exploring
Emily Soccorsy:that plays into reclaiming ourselves.
Emily Soccorsy:And just speaking for myself personally, I.
Emily Soccorsy:this is a journey that I've been
Emily Soccorsy:on like many people, you know, most intensely after the murder
Emily Soccorsy:of George Floyd and, um, have lately just been digging into it deeper and
Emily Soccorsy:deeper, and I have found that.
Emily Soccorsy:Uh, I can't keep separate reclaiming myself and understanding, my racial
Emily Soccorsy:identity, my relationship to privilege, and just the way that artificial
Emily Soccorsy:constructs have really informed my life and, Fatima has just been
Emily Soccorsy:an amazing guide for how to push back against those are understand
Emily Soccorsy:those, and I'm excited to
Emily Soccorsy:have her with us so we can dig into all this juiciness.
Emily Soccorsy:So, welcome Fatima.
Fatima Mann:Thanks, beautiful beings.
Fatima Mann:Thank you for having me.
Fatima Mann:Um, again, I hope you all are drinking water and taking care of your.
Fatima Mann:yeah, and thanks for having me, allowing me to be here with you.
Emily Soccorsy:you're welcome.
Emily Soccorsy:Thank you for coming.
Sonya Stattmann:Yay.
Sonya Stattmann:So excited.
Sonya Stattmann:This is such an important topic.
Sonya Stattmann:It's something we've, kind of, tackled a few different ways in this
Sonya Stattmann:podcast, but, you know, being able to kind of unpack and explore, just
Sonya Stattmann:even our racial identity, right?
Sonya Stattmann:I think that in and of itself is such an important part of reclaiming.
Sonya Stattmann:Um, I know when I started to kind of do some of this, Myself
Sonya Stattmann:as well, that I didn't even really ever look at that facet.
Sonya Stattmann:You know, like I didn't even really identify with a race.
Sonya Stattmann:I didn't really even, have words or expressions or understanding
Sonya Stattmann:of how that really affected me, and that was a pretty profound.
Sonya Stattmann:Exploration and transformation as I started to dive into what that
Sonya Stattmann:means to me, and maybe that's a really good place to start.
Sonya Stattmann:Like maybe we can talk about, you know, and I'd love to hear from
Sonya Stattmann:our guest, what racial identity is and how that significantly impacts
Sonya Stattmann:the way that we look at ourselves.
Fatima Mann:Um, So racial identity is an artificial construct.
Fatima Mann:It's something that these humans came up with and in their creation of
Fatima Mann:these constructs created a hierarchy.
Fatima Mann:And in this hierarchy, there's those that have, and there's those that don't.
Fatima Mann:and with these identities, it comes these boxes and becomes these
Fatima Mann:stereotypes and these prejudices and these ways of, to having to live.
Fatima Mann:And so racial identity as an artificial construct, if it's something that began,
Fatima Mann:it's something that can end, right?
Fatima Mann:Um, and so I look.
Fatima Mann:As racial identity is, is this imaginative thing that has these rules
Fatima Mann:that we can choose to subscribe to when and if it is benefiting the whole.
Fatima Mann:And if it is not benefiting the whole, then me therefore
Fatima Mann:should not be subscribing to it.
Fatima Mann:So for the sake of this conversation, I subscribe to being, a being
Fatima Mann:that the world calls a black.
Fatima Mann:I don't subscribe to the things that they say a black woman is, though I don't do,
Fatima Mann:we're not saying that I'm gonna be angry.
Fatima Mann:I'm not.
Fatima Mann:I'm not working the black girl magic, burning myself out thing.
Fatima Mann:I'm not doing none of that.
Fatima Mann:Doesn't mean that I'm not brilliant.
Fatima Mann:Doesn't mean that I don't have things to offer.
Fatima Mann:It just means that I'm not subscribing to white.
Fatima Mann:Other people say have to go to this label because they're constructs.
Fatima Mann:These constructs, right.
Fatima Mann:That most of us are not in consensual relationship with.
Fatima Mann:We're living out because we are told we have to.
Fatima Mann:What takes us away from being the.
Fatima Mann:Beautiful, expansive, wonderful beings that we are because we're, we are
Fatima Mann:trying to live up to this title, to this word, to this racial identity.
Fatima Mann:And it's like, but who are you?
Fatima Mann:Like, who are you?
Fatima Mann:And that is the question.
Fatima Mann:I think people, we don't seek to.
Fatima Mann:We seek to be the, what does it mean to be a woman?
Fatima Mann:What does it mean to be black?
Fatima Mann:What does it mean to be a Christian?
Fatima Mann:What does it mean to be straight?
Fatima Mann:What does it mean to be all these labels?
Fatima Mann:But no, who are you?
Fatima Mann:Cause you weren't made in the classroom.
Fatima Mann:No one had to like write a, a thesis and have an hypothesis about you.
Fatima Mann:But all those labels that we just mentioned, someone had to bring to the
Fatima Mann:academy, someone had to test and prove, someone had to then say, these are terms
Fatima Mann:that were gonna call this group and because we're gonna use that term for this
Fatima Mann:group, then blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Fatima Mann:Like, that's not you.
Fatima Mann:None of that had anything to do with me or you or the people
Fatima Mann:listening to this or watching this.
Fatima Mann:Right.
Fatima Mann:So racial identity is a, is a concept that many of us subscribe to, not consensually.
Fatima Mann:And if we reprogram ourselves, we recognize that it was a, someone
Fatima Mann:sold us this false dream that disconnects us from our true reality.
Fatima Mann:And if we're disconnected from ourselves, then how can we even see the other person?
Fatima Mann:In front of us.
Fatima Mann:It doesn't matter what body they're in, we can't see them if we don't see ourselves.
Fatima Mann:And racial identity takes that away from us.
Emily Soccorsy:Mm.
Sonya Stattmann:Yeah.
Emily Soccorsy:I love that.
Emily Soccorsy:So you taught, you mentioned a few times, being.
Emily Soccorsy:In consent outta consent you throughout that phrase, and I'd love for you to
Emily Soccorsy:kind of dig into that a little bit more because it's been, an idea that has been
Emily Soccorsy:really transformational for me personally.
Emily Soccorsy:So, can you talk a little bit about being in consent and outta consent?
Emily Soccorsy:I understand how, you know, there's these frameworks and they were imposed on this,
Emily Soccorsy:but dig into that a little bit for us.
Emily Soccorsy:Explain that a little bit.
Fatima Mann:most of the time when we think of consent, we
Fatima Mann:think about it in this term of like sexual relationships, right?
Fatima Mann:And when we are.
Fatima Mann:In a providing consent, it's that you're asking a person.
Fatima Mann:A person is choosing to engage in that action.
Fatima Mann:Right?
Fatima Mann:When we think about consent outside ourselves, being in consensual
Fatima Mann:relationship with ourself is asking ourselves questions, right?
Fatima Mann:What do you need?
Fatima Mann:and then listening to yourself and then giving it to yourself.
Fatima Mann:So most of us are not in a consensual relationship because when our bodies
Fatima Mann:say We're hungry, we don't feed it.
Fatima Mann:When our bodies say, we're tired, we don't sleep.
Fatima Mann:When our bodies say, we're thirsty, we don't drink, and
Fatima Mann:then we wonder why we get sick.
Fatima Mann:We wonder why we burnt out is because our bodies have.
Fatima Mann:The choice it needs us to make, and we are going against that choice.
Fatima Mann:So technically, per definition of rape, if we look at it, we
Fatima Mann:rape ourselves all the time.
Fatima Mann:We're constantly doing it, but society says we should for the sake of a paycheck,
Fatima Mann:for the sake of taking care of others, for the sake of changing the world,
Fatima Mann:we should not listen to ourselves.
Fatima Mann:We should not give ourselves what we need.
Fatima Mann:Because if we do that, then we can't go to.
Fatima Mann:If we do that, then supposedly the world is gonna end.
Fatima Mann:If we choose to take a nap, if we choose to listen to our bodies, when
Fatima Mann:we are in consensual relationship with ourself, we are aware enough
Fatima Mann:to choose things that don't cause ourselves in others' heart, right?
Fatima Mann:I'm not harming myself when I feed myself and myself says I'm hungry.
Fatima Mann:I'm not.
Fatima Mann:harming myself, if I rest, when my body says it takes, it needs.
Fatima Mann:Usually though, society says, cut all that off.
Fatima Mann:Don't do any of those things.
Fatima Mann:Be in attention and non in a harmful relationship with yourself because
Fatima Mann:you're not gonna eat when you are hungry.
Fatima Mann:You're not gonna rest when you are tired and you're not gonna slap and
Fatima Mann:drink water when you are thirsty.
Fatima Mann:So if that is consent, there's on that basic level, then think about
Fatima Mann:it in these terms, a race, right?
Fatima Mann:we can choose to identify to being white or black when it's for
Fatima Mann:the benefit of all if whiteness.
Fatima Mann:Is only going to benefit white people, then one doesn't
Fatima Mann:wanna subscribe to be white.
Fatima Mann:But if whiteness is like, oh, I wanna be white and I'm gonna use my whiteness
Fatima Mann:to make sure that everyone has access to these resources, and so now you're in a
Fatima Mann:room where everybody that looks completely not white and white has access to that one
Fatima Mann:thing, that's when whiteness is beneficial for me, being black is beneficial.
Fatima Mann:When I'm in a group of black people, it's not beneficial and I'm a group of white.
Fatima Mann:I don't wanna be black when I'm in a group filled with white people.
Fatima Mann:I just wanna be Fatima.
Fatima Mann:I don't want you to think about me as black in that, in that way.
Fatima Mann:And if I am black, I'm black for the sense of reminding your
Fatima Mann:manners not to do anything else.
Fatima Mann:Right.
Fatima Mann:It's not to limit me, it's not to make me small.
Fatima Mann:It's not to steal ideas.
Fatima Mann:It's just to be able to be like, Ooh, she's in a black body, and that
Fatima Mann:body comes with some trauma and I'm gonna be mindful and aware of that.
Fatima Mann:That's.
Fatima Mann:But other than that, my blackness, this body shouldn't dictate
Fatima Mann:what you say or how you move.
Fatima Mann:You shouldn't say, Hey, girlfriend, if you're not saying, talking
Fatima Mann:like that to your white friends, don't talk to me like that.
Fatima Mann:Like it didn't change that.
Fatima Mann:That's an artificial construct.
Fatima Mann:You're now, you're subscribing to what you think blackness is,
Fatima Mann:I don't wanna subscribe to that.
Fatima Mann:I want you to subscribe to who I am.
Fatima Mann:If you subscribe to the human, that means you get to know me.
Fatima Mann:So being in consent.
Fatima Mann:Who are you, Fatima?
Fatima Mann:Like that's a consensual, now you're in consensual relationship with me as
Fatima Mann:a person and not this title of what it means to be a black woman, but
Fatima Mann:you can't get there if you're not in consensual relationship with yourself.
Fatima Mann:So me saying, Hey, Be consent with me.
Fatima Mann:If you are not feeding you, when you hungry, if you are not drinking
Fatima Mann:water, when you thirsty, you can't even dare to honor me when I'm like,
Fatima Mann:can we have a consensual relationship here and can you see me for me?
Fatima Mann:Can you ask me questions?
Fatima Mann:Can you engage with me from this place of consent?
Fatima Mann:It's a very hard concept Then was.
Sonya Stattmann:Yeah, so then it feels like what's so important is that work that
Sonya Stattmann:we do with ourselves, that relation to ship to ourselves so that we can have more
Sonya Stattmann:care and awareness and support for others.
Sonya Stattmann:And you know, I just think that's such an important point to really pull out on.
Sonya Stattmann:I mean, I've noticed over the years, right, since George Floyd, since a
Sonya Stattmann:lot of this awareness kind of flooded in that a lot of people are perform.
Sonya Stattmann:A lot of white people are performing and trying to do all the right things outside
Sonya Stattmann:of themselves, but there still isn't the development, the personal development,
Sonya Stattmann:the relationship internally to really make a significant change, right?
Sonya Stattmann:It's performative, it's, to be good, to, you know, be, be good enough,
Sonya Stattmann:but it's not the real work that's required for the transformation.
Fatima Mann:So for me it was Brianna Taylor, right?
Fatima Mann:when, when Brianna Taylor died and she was in her bed and the world
Fatima Mann:didn't storm, the world didn't burn, the world didn't see that.
Fatima Mann:Like the bed is the safest place one could be outside.
Fatima Mann:Your mother's wo really like in my eyes, right?
Fatima Mann:Where else is safer?
Fatima Mann:And this black woman who was a person that served her community right,
Fatima Mann:like when she was killed, and I even see the same up war from people.
Fatima Mann:White bodies, black bodies have meditated.
Fatima Mann:And I was like, okay, so how do we get people to see
Fatima Mann:themselves in bodies like mine?
Fatima Mann:Right?
Fatima Mann:when someone that looks like me dies or goes missing, there's a same uproar.
Fatima Mann:How do you get someone to see me when they see themselves?
Fatima Mann:And I was like, oh, well most people don't see themselves
Fatima Mann:so they definitely can't see.
Fatima Mann:Right.
Fatima Mann:Like most people have no idea.
Fatima Mann:The being that they look at in the mirror every single day, they don't
Fatima Mann:know how amazing that person is.
Fatima Mann:They dunno how beautiful and wonderful the person is.
Fatima Mann:They don't know how, great the world is because that person is looking
Fatima Mann:back at them in the mirror exists.
Fatima Mann:Most people have no idea, so they can't never, ever, ever see me and they can't
Fatima Mann:see the wonder and joy in themselves.
Fatima Mann:. If all they see is the darkness and the guilt and the shame in themselves,
Fatima Mann:that is all they're gonna see in me.
Fatima Mann:So the work shifted from being cognitive to being what people most call trauma
Fatima Mann:informed, I like to say healing, centered, and really getting people
Fatima Mann:to recognize who you are is okay.
Fatima Mann:Be that person so that if you can see you, you can see me, you can see beyond.
Fatima Mann:Brianna Taylor.
Fatima Mann:You can see Sandra Bland.
Fatima Mann:You can see all these beings that identify as black women, whether
Fatima Mann:they're black women, identify as being trans or cisgender, whoever.
Fatima Mann:Black women in general, people forget about us.
Fatima Mann:And so this works for me is like, see me when you see you.
Fatima Mann:And how do you do that if you can't see yourself?
Emily Soccorsy:Mm-hmm.
Emily Soccorsy:So it begins with, with seeing yourself and embracing yourself.
Emily Soccorsy:And I think, um, I'll speak as a white body woman, you know, you're
Emily Soccorsy:talking about consent earlier.
Emily Soccorsy:I know I was programmed to ignore myself, you know, ignore when I
Emily Soccorsy:was tired, just like you're saying.
Emily Soccorsy:Ignore when I was hungry, ignore when, I really wanted to do, to head left,
Emily Soccorsy:but I knew that the road would go right.
Emily Soccorsy:I reoriented my course for that, in order to get like external validation.
Emily Soccorsy:And so as I started deconstructing that, it was surprisingly difficult.
Emily Soccorsy:Like it sounds so simple to just be in consent with yourself, but I found
Emily Soccorsy:it to be, it's simple but not easy.
Emily Soccorsy:Right.
Emily Soccorsy:To, to pause and.
Emily Soccorsy:I mean, I'm a people pleaser.
Emily Soccorsy:I wanna say yes.
Emily Soccorsy:And I, and I wanna, and I am, um, very intuitive and emotional and so I wanna
Emily Soccorsy:make sure everyone around me is okay.
Emily Soccorsy:I wanna almost provide for other people's consent before providing for my own . So
Emily Soccorsy:do you find, even though it's a simple concept, do you find that people struggle?
Emily Soccorsy:And what would you like offer as a good way to kind of start that
Emily Soccorsy:process of getting more and consent with yourself as a process of
Emily Soccorsy:reclaiming kind of who you are?
Fatima Mann:I'm reading this book by Han called Anger how to Cool the Flames.
Fatima Mann:And he talks about how we put so much time and energy investing and
Fatima Mann:getting degrees and making money, but we don't put the same time and
Fatima Mann:energy into relationships So we'll
Sonya Stattmann:Mm-hmm.
Fatima Mann:Like I, I got a law degree.
Fatima Mann:So when I read that, I was like, Ooh, that hurt.
Fatima Mann:I put all this time into getting this degree and I cannot say that
Fatima Mann:I've ever put that much time into any kind of relationship ever.
Fatima Mann:And reading that is like, practices, right?
Fatima Mann:We've been conditioned that we'll, we'll go to practice for an whatever
Fatima Mann:artificial thing man has made up for us to play with sport, right?
Fatima Mann:We'll study these things in the library.
Fatima Mann:But when we are talking about retraining ourselves, like
Fatima Mann:alternating our consciousness, it's this like, whew, this lofty idea.
Fatima Mann:But it's no, we've just been conditioned to put that same time and energy into
Fatima Mann:degrees and money and not relationships and relationship starts with us
Fatima Mann:being in a relationship with ourself.
Fatima Mann:We don't invest time and energy into.
Fatima Mann:And that's all it is.
Fatima Mann:It's when we create timing, energy in the day to practice new ways of
Fatima Mann:being and thinking and speaking, and we continuously do that.
Fatima Mann:It doesn't become as hard because now it's a practice.
Fatima Mann:What we like to do, we become a microwave like mentality.
Fatima Mann:We want like a home cooked meal like in microwave time.
Fatima Mann:It don't make.
Fatima Mann:I'll wait two hours.
Fatima Mann:Hell, I'll wait 12 hours.
Fatima Mann:If it's gonna be amazing, it's from scratch.
Fatima Mann:I'll wait the time it takes to get the meal I want.
Fatima Mann:But we are not, we don't, we're a society doesn't wanna do that.
Fatima Mann:So to me, I don't think it's hard.
Fatima Mann:it's discipline.
Fatima Mann:Right.
Fatima Mann:It's a practice.
Fatima Mann:It's being mindful and we are such a mindless society and we don't wanna
Fatima Mann:be mindful to be mindful as work.
Fatima Mann:But is it because again, we are getting a degree, we going to school, we wanna
Fatima Mann:get certified in something, we wanna get that promotion, we wanna do whatever.
Fatima Mann:We'll put that time and energy into it.
Fatima Mann:But when it comes to relating to humans, again, us first being the
Fatima Mann:human, we don't got time for it.
Fatima Mann:It's too.
Fatima Mann:But, so what I like to invite people to do is do for yourself
Fatima Mann:the way you do for others.
Fatima Mann:And people be looking at me and I'm like, I know, right?
Fatima Mann:But most times, especially feminine being, especially women, we'll
Fatima Mann:do for others in ways that we would not dare do for ourselves.
Fatima Mann:So now it's like you already know how to do it.
Fatima Mann:Just do it for yourself.
Fatima Mann:That's it.
Emily Soccorsy:Mm-hmm.
Sonya Stattmann:Yeah.
Sonya Stattmann:Well, you know, they say it takes, what, 3000 repetitions
Sonya Stattmann:to be an embodied practice.
Sonya Stattmann:Right.
Sonya Stattmann:So it's like that consistent practice is what re shifts us.
Sonya Stattmann:It retrains us, it reprograms the brain and the neurons and the nervous system.
Sonya Stattmann:3000 repetitions, right?
Sonya Stattmann:We have so many embodied practices that we've been.
Sonya Stattmann:Trained in for decades, for years, right.
Sonya Stattmann:The older we've been, and I think some people think like it's so easy
Sonya Stattmann:to kind of switch our programming or to switch these things that are within
Sonya Stattmann:ourselves, but it takes time, it takes patience, like you were saying.
Sonya Stattmann:You know, it takes a quality of attention.
Sonya Stattmann:It takes prioritizing for us to be able to reprogram something that we've been
Sonya Stattmann:sitting in for a really, really long time.
Fatima Mann:And Grace, right?
Fatima Mann:Cause we also in in society, Makes you feel like you should get it?
Fatima Mann:Like when you start, like, what's wrong with me?
Fatima Mann:Like, hold on, wait.
Fatima Mann:Like you were this way for how many years and you just started this
Fatima Mann:practice like a couple of months ago.
Fatima Mann:Like, have grace for yourself.
Fatima Mann:you're not gonna get to the place of being a certain way.
Fatima Mann:If you were this way longer than like that, right?
Fatima Mann:If you just learned it today, give yourself some grace.
Fatima Mann:And we don't have enough grace for ourselves when we cause harm or when we,
Fatima Mann:like wrong someone or wronged or whatever.
Fatima Mann:We just, we live in a cutoff culture, including ourselves.
Fatima Mann:We'll cut ourself from off from ourself because we didn't do the
Fatima Mann:thing that we thought we should do.
Fatima Mann:And it's like, hold on.
Fatima Mann:Did you just dog out yourself?
Fatima Mann:Like, why are you talking about yourself like that?
Fatima Mann:it's okay.
Fatima Mann:You know?
Fatima Mann:So I feel like grace and compassion for self is, paramount because
Fatima Mann:again, you can't give it to anybody else if you don't have it.
Fatima Mann:But if you're learning new things and you're, and, and new things of.
Fatima Mann:Ways of thinking and speaking and being, having grace for the bumps
Fatima Mann:in the road and the, and the times you stump your toe and the times you
Fatima Mann:didn't see that thing right is just as important, as learning the practice.
Fatima Mann:It's like, if you can't practice grace, don't practice this right
Fatima Mann:now cause you're gonna call yourself harm and that's not fair to.
Sonya Stattmann:Yeah,
Sonya Stattmann:I mean, that's so much that part of our humanity, right?
Sonya Stattmann:Is that understanding that we make mistakes that we, you know, do things
Sonya Stattmann:that harm ourselves and others.
Sonya Stattmann:And so it isn't about not making any mistakes or not doing those things.
Sonya Stattmann:It's about, you know, recognizing and being more mindful when they happen.
Sonya Stattmann:Having compassion and love for ourselves when we do make mistakes
Sonya Stattmann:and, you know, staying connected.
Sonya Stattmann:I mean, I think we have such a disconnection to ourselves and to
Sonya Stattmann:our bodies and to what we feel, and that's what we're taught as a whole
Sonya Stattmann:society, is to stay disconnected and then it's hard to have compassion.
Sonya Stattmann:It's hard to have empathy.
Sonya Stattmann:And so, so much I think of that the path is reconnecting to ourselves.
Sonya Stattmann:Like I, I've done a lot of, um, sort of trauma informed.
Sonya Stattmann:Healing work.
Sonya Stattmann:Right.
Sonya Stattmann:And education.
Sonya Stattmann:And you know, they talk a lot about how emotional intelligence is that ability
Sonya Stattmann:to be with whatever we're feeling.
Sonya Stattmann:So it's not, not feeling anything and it's not always being happy and it's
Sonya Stattmann:not not making any mistakes, it's just allowing yourself the capacity to be with.
Sonya Stattmann:What shows up to be with the mistakes you make to be with the way that,
Sonya Stattmann:you know, you have your unconscious biases or whatever happens.
Sonya Stattmann:It's to be with those things and be more mindful and connected to ourselves.
Sonya Stattmann:And I think that's, you know, a really important part of
Sonya Stattmann:what you're talking about.
Sonya Stattmann:And where do people start in that path to reconnecting to themselves,
Fatima Mann:outside of connecting with me, um, , , honestly, Um, asking
Fatima Mann:yourself questions like, who am I?
Fatima Mann:What do I want?
Fatima Mann:What do I need?
Fatima Mann:And giving yourself time to ask and answer, right?
Fatima Mann:Like, not just, I'm gonna ask myself, no, ask journal it.
Fatima Mann:Think it out, talk it out.
Fatima Mann:Like who am I?
Fatima Mann:What do I want?
Fatima Mann:What is that person that I want to be?
Fatima Mann:how does that person talk?
Fatima Mann:How does that person think?
Fatima Mann:What does that person wear?
Fatima Mann:What does that person listen to?
Fatima Mann:What kind of music?
Fatima Mann:What kind of words does that person use?
Fatima Mann:Right?
Fatima Mann:Because if you're not asking yourself these questions, then you're just
Fatima Mann:out here doing things and then the intent may be one thing, but the
Fatima Mann:impact sucks because you're just out.
Fatima Mann:And you're not out here knowing what it is that you're really conjuring, what
Fatima Mann:it is that you're really manifesting.
Fatima Mann:Because a lot of times we are, we speak life for death with our tongue.
Fatima Mann:So we're not speaking what we want to be true.
Fatima Mann:And we don't recognize that we are creating these realities because
Fatima Mann:we haven't asked ourselves these questions and answered these questions.
Fatima Mann:And so asking these questions are very, very important.
Fatima Mann:Who am I?
Fatima Mann:What do I.
Fatima Mann:What, and then what did that like, and then why do I think,
Fatima Mann:why do I think this way?
Fatima Mann:Why am I doing this?
Fatima Mann:Asking the, what's the, wheres the why's?
Fatima Mann:Where did I get this from?
Fatima Mann:Am I okay with acting like this?
Fatima Mann:Asking these questions for me came from like the practice of Buddhism
Fatima Mann:and mindfulness practices and having this right understanding of
Fatima Mann:self, and if you have your right understanding of self, which allows you.
Fatima Mann:To find that understanding in others.
Fatima Mann:But we don't.
Fatima Mann:We're not in a society that says, ask questions.
Fatima Mann:Ask yourself questions every single day.
Fatima Mann:What do you want your day to look like?
Fatima Mann:How do I wanna feel today?
Fatima Mann:How do I want it Like every single day?
Fatima Mann:And we don't do that.
Fatima Mann:So I think that's where to start, is like, Really asking
Fatima Mann:and answering and then living it.
Fatima Mann:So not just saying, who am I?
Fatima Mann:It's like, okay, who, if I'm, I'm an Aquarius.
Fatima Mann:I am the aquarium on all of my charts.
Fatima Mann:I am an air sign.
Fatima Mann:I act like an air sign.
Fatima Mann:I don't like planning things.
Fatima Mann:I don't do it right.
Fatima Mann:That's who I am.
Fatima Mann:Like I am like the air, I flow, like the air things plans
Fatima Mann:happen and they do it right.
Fatima Mann:So when I'm talking to people, I tell people, listen, that's not my strong part.
Fatima Mann:My strong part is not.
Fatima Mann:Planning and doing things in my personal life.
Fatima Mann:You don't want me to mm-hmm.
Fatima Mann:I'm not the one, Cause I just go by the seat of my pants.
Fatima Mann:I'm an air sign.
Fatima Mann:That's who I am.
Fatima Mann:So I can talk to people from this place of knowing that they may
Fatima Mann:get mad because I'm not gonna.
Fatima Mann:and I'm going by the seats of my pants and I can have compassion for them
Fatima Mann:because I'm out here being the air sign and they, they don't like that.
Fatima Mann:And I'm like, oh, okay.
Fatima Mann:Right.
Fatima Mann:Because I know how I'm showing up in the world and I can see
Fatima Mann:that that impacts other people.
Fatima Mann:But if we don't know how we show up in the world, we can't see that.
Fatima Mann:That impacts people and have kind of passion because they're, they're impacted
Fatima Mann:by how we choose to show up in the world.
Fatima Mann:So it all starts with us.
Fatima Mann:How do I wanna show up in the world who.
Sonya Stattmann:Yeah.
Sonya Stattmann:love that.
Emily Soccorsy:you talked about intent and impact and
Emily Soccorsy:those being in alignment, right?
Emily Soccorsy:And you just.
Emily Soccorsy:You know, at the very end there that if we don't know how we who
Emily Soccorsy:we are, how can we understand the impact that we have on others?
Emily Soccorsy:And I think that's really powerful.
Emily Soccorsy:I, I think too, and that once people start learning these concepts and,
Emily Soccorsy:and undoing the constraints that have kept us from knowing ourself.
Emily Soccorsy:there is this excitement that grows and like a desire to
Emily Soccorsy:wanna share that with others.
Emily Soccorsy:And that can kind of sometimes, lean into, you know, what?
Emily Soccorsy:So was talking about with being performative, right?
Emily Soccorsy:So we've talked about harm versus discomfort and how that plays into things.
Emily Soccorsy:going out and sharing, you know, your own process of, of understanding your
Emily Soccorsy:own identity and being in consent, maybe difficult for people to, to
Emily Soccorsy:absorb if just kind of coming at them.
Emily Soccorsy:So can you talk a little bit about.
Emily Soccorsy:Causing discomfort versus causing harm and how to know.
Emily Soccorsy:Cause I have a, you know, I have kind of a, I used to have a more of a reaction to
Emily Soccorsy:like, oh, that made them uncomfortable.
Emily Soccorsy:And so maybe that's a sign to stop or to, change something I'm doing.
Emily Soccorsy:But I've learned that when I'm grounded and what I'm doing, um,
Emily Soccorsy:it's okay to cause discomfort.
Emily Soccorsy:So I would love for you to share a little bit about discomfort versus harm.
Fatima Mann:So, um, I've been learning with consent, right?
Fatima Mann:When we are in consensual relationship, we don't cause harm.
Fatima Mann:Most times harm is caused because no one consented on the engagement
Fatima Mann:and now you're in the experience that parties did not agree to be in.
Fatima Mann:So harm when one, when there's a harm.
Fatima Mann:Healing has to happen.
Fatima Mann:There has to be like some, some reconciliation some
Fatima Mann:alignment, some realization.
Fatima Mann:That's like harm There has to be some healing.
Fatima Mann:Discomfort is just a shift, right?
Fatima Mann:And so being able to establish, like when one is sitting in a chair and you've
Fatima Mann:been sitting for a long time and you get uncomfortable, you just shift and now
Fatima Mann:you're, you're comfortable again, right?
Fatima Mann:Like that's being uncomfortable.
Fatima Mann:A harm happens is when you're sitting there for so long,
Fatima Mann:now you need physical therapy.
Fatima Mann:Because now there's a harm that's been caused.
Fatima Mann:You've been in this spot for so long, but your body was harmed from it, right?
Fatima Mann:It was.
Fatima Mann:It wasn't in moderation.
Fatima Mann:You, you just was there and now you have to have some healing because of how long
Fatima Mann:you sat in that chair in that position.
Fatima Mann:A lot of times, and we talk about race or these things of artificial constructs,
Fatima Mann:people are really uncomfortable, but there isn't harm caused, and they're
Fatima Mann:uncomfortable because we usually don't have space to have really.
Fatima Mann:We really don't, we don't have space to have uncomfortable conversations,
Fatima Mann:nor do we have the tools and practices to be in that space in a regulated
Fatima Mann:nervous system, and to not take things personally and just to be able to talk
Fatima Mann:about the impacts of the artificial constructs that exists in a lot of
Fatima Mann:people's realities from a place that honors, oh, this is just uncomfortable,
Fatima Mann:but I'm not, being harmed here.
Fatima Mann:The harm comes if, if I start talking about you as a person, If I'm talking
Fatima Mann:about whiteness and you decided to take it personally, that ain't my problem.
Fatima Mann:You're uncomfortable if I am talking about you specific as a white person,
Fatima Mann:I'm causing harm now because now I'm projecting onto you what I'm saying
Fatima Mann:and it has nothing to do with you.
Fatima Mann:I'm talking.
Fatima Mann:This, the concept of whiteness that may impact you but has nothing
Fatima Mann:to do with you as an individual.
Fatima Mann:And most times we don't know the difference, and especially when
Fatima Mann:we're talking about these concepts.
Fatima Mann:So when we start talking about these things that are politically correct
Fatima Mann:conversations or these PC things, people are like, oh, you're causing harm.
Fatima Mann:No, I'm not.
Fatima Mann:I'm not causing harm.
Fatima Mann:we are not conditioned to have these conversations and most of
Fatima Mann:us aren't grounded in our bodies.
Fatima Mann:So when we look to have these conversations, we go into fight,
Fatima Mann:flight, freeze response instead of being able to take deep breaths and
Fatima Mann:realize this has nothing to do with me.
Fatima Mann:And so when we, for me, when, when I guide people through space about
Fatima Mann:race, we don't really even talk about like white s We don't use words like
Fatima Mann:white supremacy or any of these things because I don't wanna be, I don't
Fatima Mann:want people to be triggered, right?
Fatima Mann:I want you to be in your bodies and be regulated and know that I see you as a
Fatima Mann:person, and when we start talking about these concepts, they're just concepts
Fatima Mann:that you're gonna be uncomfortable with.
Fatima Mann:But I'm not trying to harm you.
Fatima Mann:But if we Start with the consent part and that, and what is
Fatima Mann:harm, what is his comfort?
Fatima Mann:We can't even talk about race because I need people to get that love.
Fatima Mann:You're gonna be really uncomfortable.
Fatima Mann:I'm gonna say some things that you're gonna be like, did
Fatima Mann:she just say that to my face?
Fatima Mann:Yes.
Fatima Mann:On purpose.
Fatima Mann:I did.
Fatima Mann:And we can take deep breaths and we can pause and we can sit in it.
Fatima Mann:And if you have tears, I don't care about your tears because you need
Fatima Mann:to, you need to be able to move.
Fatima Mann:but your tears are because you're uncomfortable and you're not
Fatima Mann:accustomed to being uncomfortable.
Fatima Mann:Your tears aren't because I hurt you.
Fatima Mann:Right.
Fatima Mann:And knowing that you can, in discomfort with discomfort, there's love.
Fatima Mann:. There's nurturing, there's care there, there was, there was a container
Fatima Mann:where you were like, oh, this is so uncomfortable, but ooh, it feels good.
Fatima Mann:I call it being told off by a grandma.
Fatima Mann:You know when grandmas tell you about yourself and you know, I don't care what
Fatima Mann:race you are, what identity grandma's old ladies have, the ability to tell
Fatima Mann:you about yourself in the sweetest way.
Fatima Mann:You're like, did she just, did she just tell me?
Fatima Mann:Yes, she did.
Fatima Mann:But wasn't it so sweet?
Fatima Mann:Well, didn't she make you feel good about it?
Fatima Mann:that's that, that's what discomfort is when we have these conversations.
Fatima Mann:It's with that kind of love, that kind of sweetness, that kind of reality.
Fatima Mann:when we're in harm, that that sweetness isn't there.
Fatima Mann:That presence isn't there, that nurturing isn't there, that presence
Fatima Mann:and like being mindful isn't there.
Fatima Mann:and most times when people claim to be harmed, I'm like, mm-hmm.
Fatima Mann:ask yourself, why do I feel.
Fatima Mann:, what about what was said was harmful?
Fatima Mann:In most times it wasn't.
Fatima Mann:It was just, they had, they were triggered, wasn't grounded in
Fatima Mann:their bodies, and wasn't guided through the difference of being
Fatima Mann:harmed and being uncomfortable.
Fatima Mann:And when we talk about race, that has to be a part of the conversation.
Sonya Stattmann:yes.
Sonya Stattmann:I so agree.
Sonya Stattmann:I mean, a lot of times I talk about, you know, in diversity work that's so
Sonya Stattmann:much like in corporate environments and all these different places
Sonya Stattmann:where a lot of people are starting to sort of bring attention to work.
Sonya Stattmann:It's so important to resource people.
Sonya Stattmann:In terms of having a connection to understanding themselves, even recognizing
Sonya Stattmann:they have a nervous system and what happens with that, what it looks like
Sonya Stattmann:activated, what looks like not activated, like there's so many of these resourcing
Sonya Stattmann:tools that I feel like we're not putting into place so that we can have these
Sonya Stattmann:more uncomfortable, conversations.
Sonya Stattmann:These very important conversations.
Sonya Stattmann:but most people aren't even talking about that.
Sonya Stattmann:They're not even including the body.
Sonya Stattmann:And so much of this work, I love, I don't know if you know Stacy Haynes,
Sonya Stattmann:have you ever heard of Stacy Haynes?
Fatima Mann:No
Sonya Stattmann:she, she does a lot of work sort of in this intersection
Sonya Stattmann:between personal development and trauma healing and social, um, justice.
Sonya Stattmann:Right?
Sonya Stattmann:So it's like there, there's like such an important inter interconnection
Sonya Stattmann:between those two things.
Sonya Stattmann:And you know, she's talks a lot about how, you know, being able to.
Sonya Stattmann:Do the personal development work in a way that brings sort of connection
Sonya Stattmann:and, regulation and all of these things allows us to really have more impact
Sonya Stattmann:in social justice work and social justice work that's informed in trauma.
Sonya Stattmann:Right.
Sonya Stattmann:Ha is able to, you know, not harm, but be able to create these
Sonya Stattmann:really kind of, Discomfort in, in stories and in these conversations.
Sonya Stattmann:And I think that this intersection is such an important piece.
Sonya Stattmann:And it sounds like that's a lot of the work you are doing as well with that
Sonya Stattmann:kind of interconnection between that personal development and that social
Sonya Stattmann:context and social justice and, um, yeah.
Sonya Stattmann:I just think it's really, really important.
Fatima Mann:I thank you.
Fatima Mann:I, I look Stacey hands up because I had no idea if someone else was doing it.
Fatima Mann:So I, graduated law school in 2018.
Fatima Mann:Got into trauma informed.
Fatima Mann:Practices I had known about being trauma formed.
Fatima Mann:I used to work at a child advocacy center, but like becoming someone
Fatima Mann:that was, um, trained to hold space in a trauma informed way.
Fatima Mann:I didn't start until 2018 and then I got into trauma conscious yoga, but
Fatima Mann:I was organizing around Sandra Bland and I had been doing police brutality
Fatima Mann:work and I had recognized that I was leading from an, from a traumatized
Fatima Mann:perspective, I was leading from a place of, my nervous system was always in.
Fatima Mann:I was like always in fight because we're doing police brutality work.
Fatima Mann:I'm writing policy that helps.
Fatima Mann:That's like helping change things.
Fatima Mann:I'm doing disaster relief work around a specific group of people and I'm
Fatima Mann:like, oh, we're all traumatized.
Fatima Mann:So it was about 2019, I started bringing.
Fatima Mann:There was every meeting that I guide, there's a regulation of nervous system.
Fatima Mann:We do breath work, because we all need to be in like our bodies in the here and now.
Fatima Mann:And I realize that.
Fatima Mann:as I started to hear my own trauma and move from a regulated nervous
Fatima Mann:system, I saw all the humans that were involved in what was going on, right?
Fatima Mann:So police officers are human beings, and they are human beings that see
Fatima Mann:really horrible things every single day.
Fatima Mann:And they don't have access to trauma informed therapy.
Fatima Mann:Like after police do what they do, their insurance doesn't
Fatima Mann:cover them getting the actual.
Fatima Mann:Assistance they need mind blown because now I see that if this human
Fatima Mann:is traumatized, then they're moving and making decisions from this deregulated
Fatima Mann:nervous system, which means that they are not making really good decisions.
Fatima Mann:I would've never have seen that if I didn't know that how trauma shows up
Fatima Mann:in the body and how all humans have trauma and there's ways in which we
Fatima Mann:can advocate from a trauma informed perspective and getting more leaders
Fatima Mann:to do trauma informed healing work.
Fatima Mann:Right?
Fatima Mann:Like I started Loving Healing One.
Fatima Mann:The reason we started was so that we.
Fatima Mann:Retreats and stuff for leaders and activists because most
Fatima Mann:of us have vicarious trauma.
Fatima Mann:We're, we're working with families that are experiencing so much mothers who
Fatima Mann:lose their, children to police brutality.
Fatima Mann:There's no retreats for them.
Fatima Mann:I know Sandra Bland's mother and other mothers who there is no space for them
Fatima Mann:to go to grieve and get trauma informed care because they're, they're, they're
Fatima Mann:experiencing direct and informal trauma.
Fatima Mann:Unfortunately, this is where, this is where the race thing comes in.
Fatima Mann:Most trauma informed practices are open to white bodied people and they
Fatima Mann:cost prices that a lot of people that look like me, we can't afford to pay,
Sonya Stattmann:Yeah.
Sonya Stattmann:That's why the work you're doing is so important.
Sonya Stattmann:I would love to hear more about the work you're doing and how people can access
Sonya Stattmann:you and, you know, just to learn more about, you know, what you're offering
Sonya Stattmann:the world and, and how our listeners can
Sonya Stattmann:connect.
Fatima Mann:Well, thank you for asking.
Fatima Mann:Well, I'm one half of loving healing work.
Fatima Mann:Um, we're a consulting training and a retreat space kinda all in one.
Fatima Mann:So we help businesses, organizations, people, uh,
Fatima Mann:expand and transform their lives.
Fatima Mann:Through, cultural, mindful healing and human centered experiences.
Fatima Mann:Um, we have literary book experiences.
Fatima Mann:Um, we help set up like diversity acting and inclusion work, but, um, we like
Fatima Mann:to call it being, uh, how to mitigate harm, how to be culturally mindful,
Fatima Mann:um, and then bringing that into policy.
Fatima Mann:So getting to use my law degree and like if you want to have
Fatima Mann:heart centered practices on paper for your organization or.
Fatima Mann:We help you create that.
Fatima Mann:Um, we spend time with you developing, different ways of containing,
Fatima Mann:conversations and creating culture within your business and organization.
Fatima Mann:and also, I like to call it how to leverage white privilege, but people
Fatima Mann:that identify as being white who know that they have white privilege,
Fatima Mann:wanting to do more and expand on how.
Fatima Mann:We really work with, with white bodies to do that is how do we
Fatima Mann:talk about race from this place of, no one is the victim or villain.
Fatima Mann:Everyone is actually the victim.
Fatima Mann:No one wins with racism, no one wins with these hierarchies.
Fatima Mann:and that being love work And so I feel like we do racial healing
Fatima Mann:work is really what we do.
Fatima Mann:and we take.
Sonya Stattmann:Mm.
Fatima Mann:diversity, equity, inclusion, and, we bring it into the interpersonal,
Fatima Mann:like it's more of, of who you are.
Fatima Mann:Um, and then we utilize our business acumen and our, the law acumen to
Fatima Mann:put it into an actual infrastructure.
Fatima Mann:So now it's in your business.
Fatima Mann:So if you what they'll say is now, it's sustainable now that if when you're not
Fatima Mann:there, that practice will always be there.
Fatima Mann:Um, and then.
Fatima Mann:Centering the people that take care of people, like training
Fatima Mann:and, coaching and consulting.
Fatima Mann:Those that are the consultants, those that are, um, the spiritual leaders
Fatima Mann:and the healers, like creating space for those people to be seen and heard,
Fatima Mann:um, and to break down and unravel.
Fatima Mann:Because a lot of times leaders, whether it's CEOs, directors,
Fatima Mann:don't really get spaces to.
Fatima Mann:Be people, and to heal and ask questions and to break down because there's
Fatima Mann:so many people counting on them.
Fatima Mann:So we like to really create space for individuals who are in these leadership
Fatima Mann:roles, who also need space to talk to other, who are experiencing, experiencing
Fatima Mann:a life, but don't have to experience it.
Fatima Mann:Um, because loving, healing work, and, love and healing take work.
Fatima Mann:we have love and healing work.
Emily Soccorsy:and, Sonya.
Emily Soccorsy:It is, uh, I am, have gone through how to leverage white privilege
Emily Soccorsy:and love and healing work and.
Emily Soccorsy:I just wanna say that it has been just so profoundly nourishing, challenging,
Emily Soccorsy:, discomforting, , and, um, comforting and.
Emily Soccorsy:Change making for, for me.
Emily Soccorsy:And as I said at the, at the beginning of this conversation, it has also been
Emily Soccorsy:very much a part of reclaiming myself, um, who I am at my purest, um, at
Emily Soccorsy:my, at my best, at my most integral.
Emily Soccorsy:and I think that we can do work on ourselves and we can explore
Emily Soccorsy:ourselves and we can try to bring ourselves back together.
Emily Soccorsy:But if we're not, then applying that to the world around us and helping to
Emily Soccorsy:deconstruct some of the very harmful.
Emily Soccorsy:Constructs in the world, then I think we're just missing.
Emily Soccorsy:We're missing huge opportunity.
Emily Soccorsy:And so I think that this conversation is so important as we explore
Emily Soccorsy:how we reclaim who we are.
Emily Soccorsy:And I'm so honored that Fatima joined
Emily Soccorsy:us today.
Sonya Stattmann:Yes.
Sonya Stattmann:Thank you so much, Fatima.
Sonya Stattmann:Any, anything else you'd like to as we kind of wrap up our episode today?
Sonya Stattmann:Anything else you'd kind of like to finish off with before we close?
Fatima Mann:I'd say follow us on social media.
Fatima Mann:sign up for our newsletter at Loving Healing Work.
Fatima Mann:and then also take care of yourself like you're the most important person.
Fatima Mann:Like you are the most important everything.
Fatima Mann:And so part of reclaiming oneself is honoring that you deserve you.
Fatima Mann:You deserve to give you all the love and attention and time, and
Fatima Mann:that's not, being self-centered.
Fatima Mann:that's self love.
Fatima Mann:Because again, you can't give what you don't have.
Fatima Mann:So you can give yourself and be full of love for yourself.
Fatima Mann:Then you already know you love somebody else.
Fatima Mann:So I just invite people to honor and love on themselves cause they deserve it.
Fatima Mann:they deserve to drink water.
Fatima Mann:You deserve to eat.
Fatima Mann:You deserve to rest.
Fatima Mann:It's your birth.
Sonya Stattmann:Thank you so much and thank you both for joining us and
Sonya Stattmann:thank you listeners for being here, and I'll make sure to have all of Fatima's
Sonya Stattmann:information in the show notes so that you can click the links and check her out.
Sonya Stattmann:And I really appreciate you all and we'll see you next week.
Emily Soccorsy:Hey, it's Emily.
Emily Soccorsy:I hope something from our conversation today inspired you.
Emily Soccorsy:And if you find yourself curious about my work about intrinsic branding or
Emily Soccorsy:about Root and River, I invite you to head over to rootandriver.com where
Emily Soccorsy:you can sign up for our newsletter, or you can read some of our free content.
