Remembering who we are is an important part of reclaiming ourselves, but the journey to reclaiming ourselves is a process of forgetting & remembering.
This week Belinda & Sonya are talking about an important part of the self love journey & the road to more self-compassion.
They share their experiences with the lifelong practice of remembering themselves (and forgetting themselves), and why finding grace for ourselves is foundational to having compassion for others.
Join us as we discuss:
- 02:24 How losing and remembering ourselves defines the cyclical process of reclaiming ourselves.
- 14:42 Why our perception of others can trick us into thinking we’re the only ones experiencing negative emotions.
- 15:10 The ways that human responses to grief and loss are labelled as character flaws.
- 17:02 Why being amazing doesn’t mean being perfect.
- 24:26 How we abandon ourselves when we’re most vulnerable by judging ourselves for experiencing our feelings.
Resources mentioned in the show: (If appropriate)
- No Bad Parts: Healing Trauma and Restoring Wholeness with the Internal Family Systems Model, by Dr. Richard Schwartz https://ifs-institute.com/nobadparts
- Psychotherapist & Author Matt Licata, PhD https://mattlicataphd.com/
Learn more about Sonya & Belinda:
—> Sonya Stattmann is the host & creator of Reclaiming Ourselves™. She is a TEDx & corporate speaker and has been working with leaders around personal development for the last 22 years. She teaches workshops & offers small group programs around emotional intelligence, transformational & embodied leadership, and energy management. You can find more about her here:
Website: https://www.sonyastattmann.com/
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonyastattmann/
—> Belinda Haan, co-host of Reclaiming Ourselves, is a gifted Masters-level certified professional coach who has worked with leaders and executives in various Fortune 500 corporations worldwide. She is a mindfulness and compassion teacher and facilitates group and individual therapeutic interventions that promote inner connection and belonging. She is personally passionate about bridging the gap between science and spirit, using an empathic, grounded approach that weaves contemplative practice and accessible personal development with her clients. You can find more about her here:
Website: www.belindahaan.com
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/belinda-haan-b1b02815/
What you can do next:
- For more episodes, opportunities, and information on the hosts, visit http://reclaimingourselvespodcast.com/
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- Need a little weekly magic? Sign up for Worthy Love Notes & weekly affirmations here https://www.sonyastattmann.com/self-worth-affirmations-2/
Thank you for being you. We are so honored to have you as a listener!
Transcript
so often in self development and psychology
Sonya Stattmann:and mental health and all these places, we look at the forgetting.
Sonya Stattmann:Evil thing that's now come and sabotaged us and taking us out of where we wanna be.
Sonya Stattmann:And another pattern is here, how long do we have to work with this pattern?
Sonya Stattmann:But looking at it as if it has a purpose, understanding that it's part of our
Sonya Stattmann:deepening, it's part of our growth.
Sonya Stattmann:I think that's really a powerful thing to talk about.
Belinda Haan:Yes, absolutely.
Belinda Haan:And you know, it's in those more, difficult moments or the moments of
Belinda Haan:suffering or, or resistance to what's happening, the, the difficulty,
Belinda Haan:the darkness, whatever you wanna.
Belinda Haan:Call it whatever the experience is.
Belinda Haan:And I think there's a scale on, these experiences as well.
Belinda Haan:But without those, how do we access the light?
Belinda Haan:How do we access the deeper parts of ourselves that are
Belinda Haan:waiting there to be liberated,
Sonya Stattmann:If you know there is something deep inside of you
Sonya Stattmann:that is yearning to be seen, to be known, and to have expression.
Sonya Stattmann:If there's something you need to reclaim and remember: maybe it's your
Sonya Stattmann:power or your purpose, your gifts.
Sonya Stattmann:This is the podcast for you.
Sonya Stattmann:Welcome to Reclaiming Ourselves.
Sonya Stattmann:I'm your host, Sonya Stattmann and I'm honored to have three amazing
Sonya Stattmann:co-hosts, Laura Shook-Guzman, Belinda Haan, and Emily Soccorsy, here with
Sonya Stattmann:me on this journey to self discovery.
Sonya Stattmann:Every week we're gonna help you unravel and remember what it means to reclaim
Sonya Stattmann:yourself, to own who you are, to recognize your innate worth and greatness.
Sonya Stattmann:Now this podcast is a deep dive into self-development,
Sonya Stattmann:healing, and empowerment.
Sonya Stattmann:So hold on.
Sonya Stattmann:Here we go.
Sonya Stattmann:Hello and welcome back to Reclaiming Ourselves.
Sonya Stattmann:I'm so excited for the episode that we have today.
Sonya Stattmann:We're gonna kind of explore and unpack a topic I love discussing, and I think
Sonya Stattmann:it's a really important topic, and it's kind of around this idea that.
Sonya Stattmann:Reclaiming ourselves is not like this consistent, constant process.
Sonya Stattmann:It's kind of a, a forgetting and a remembering and a forgetting and
Sonya Stattmann:a remembering and kind of a, we're gonna sort of talk about the cyclical
Sonya Stattmann:process of reclaiming ourselves.
Sonya Stattmann:And I've got here today, Belinda Hahn, and I'm so excited to have her in the studio.
Sonya Stattmann:So, welcome, Belinda.
Belinda Haan:thank you Sonya, and hello everyone.
Belinda Haan:I'm so excited to be here.
Belinda Haan:This is one of my favorite topics and I certainly have an embodied experience
Belinda Haan:of forgetting as well as remembering
Sonya Stattmann:Yeah.
Sonya Stattmann:And so maybe let's just start with sort of talking about this concept or this idea.
Sonya Stattmann:So what does it mean when we say, you know, we forget and we remember,
Sonya Stattmann:let's, let's kind of start with that
Belinda Haan:Well, I think remembering, for me, remembering is about connection
Belinda Haan:to ourselves and our true selves.
Belinda Haan:we can connect with our.
Belinda Haan:Either Okayness or our wholeness, or our groundedness.
Belinda Haan:Spaciousness, and in that place, We are able to be more present.
Belinda Haan:compassion is naturally here.
Belinda Haan:Uh, we're able to sort of make values, align choices and we're
Belinda Haan:able to sort of flow with life.
Belinda Haan:And that doesn't mean that there's no, no difficulty.
Belinda Haan:It just means that we're able to sort of allow it and meet the moment with
Belinda Haan:whatever is required and forgetting.
Belinda Haan:Is really when we forget that we are, beyond the content of our experience
Belinda Haan:and what, you know, our emotions, thoughts, what's happening externally.
Belinda Haan:Beyond that, we have forgotten that underneath all of that we
Belinda Haan:are whole complete, and we have a.
Belinda Haan:Unlimited pool of joy and compassion within and that, that sort of takes
Belinda Haan:us, you know, maybe we're triggered by something or we have some kind of
Belinda Haan:difficulty or suffering and the little switch on our conditioning happens,
Belinda Haan:you know, there's a threat response.
Belinda Haan:We get hooked, um, by, you know, past conditioning.
Belinda Haan:We might do things that we don't really wanna do that maybe is not values
Belinda Haan:aligned, or we can really deeply resist what, what is happening in the present
Belinda Haan:moment, whether that's our in inner experience or our outer experience.
Belinda Haan:And for me, so I'm still working with the duality of this because it's easy to say
Belinda Haan:remembering is good and forgetting is bad.
Belinda Haan:And I have spent, because I have had both of those experiences, it's
Belinda Haan:obviously easy, you know, natural to grasp onto the remembering because
Belinda Haan:that's when you know everything's flowing and life is, um, full of.
Belinda Haan:and to say, oh, I don't wanna, I don't wanna be in forgetting, so how
Belinda Haan:do I quickly get back to remembering?
Belinda Haan:But forgetting is an inherent part of our.
Belinda Haan:Our journey to remembering, it's a transient, transient nature of
Belinda Haan:knowing our ourselves more deeply, you know, our different conditionings,
Belinda Haan:the different things that still need to be looked at to uncover the joy.
Belinda Haan:And what I've, spent a lot of time trying to work out the formula to
Belinda Haan:get from forgetting to remembering . I've got these beautiful visuals.
Belinda Haan:Mind maps, , but, but what I've realized is that it just
Belinda Haan:naturally arises once we surrender.
Belinda Haan:Like once we really let go of our grip of things not being what we want it to
Belinda Haan:be, or we are not what we want it to be, then it just actually naturally arises.
Sonya Stattmann:Yes, I agree.
Sonya Stattmann:I mean, I feel like, you know, there's so many like frameworks
Sonya Stattmann:we could use for this topic.
Sonya Stattmann:Right.
Sonya Stattmann:you know, you can look at, we were in a space of responding, which to me is the.
Sonya Stattmann:Is the remembering, or we're in a space of reaction, which
Sonya Stattmann:is, you know, the forgetting.
Sonya Stattmann:And I think we can also look at it from like parts work, right?
Sonya Stattmann:the self, the big self, the essential self is the remembering and the
Sonya Stattmann:forgetting is all the protectors and the parts of ourselves that are,
Sonya Stattmann:activated and seeking to help us survive.
Sonya Stattmann:Um, so I think there's like all these really wonderful ways in which we can
Sonya Stattmann:explore and talk about this topic.
Sonya Stattmann:But I love this idea that the forgetting has a place in process, right?
Sonya Stattmann:Like it's not the bad thing that happens, or it's not just because we've had trauma
Sonya Stattmann:or it's not just because, I don't know all these ways in which we judge it
Sonya Stattmann:or look at it, but instead, This part is part of the process that helps us
Sonya Stattmann:deepen our understanding of ourselves, that helps us remember who we are.
Sonya Stattmann:Even more like that is a really powerful way to explore it because I
Sonya Stattmann:think so often in self development and psychology and mental health and all
Sonya Stattmann:these places, we look at the forgetting.
Sonya Stattmann:Evil thing that's now come and sabotaged us and taking us out of where we wanna be.
Sonya Stattmann:And another pattern is here, how long do we have to work with this pattern?
Sonya Stattmann:But looking at it as if it has a purpose, understanding that it's part of our
Sonya Stattmann:deepening, it's part of our growth.
Sonya Stattmann:I think that's really a powerful thing to talk about.
Belinda Haan:Yes, absolutely.
Belinda Haan:And you know, it's in those more, difficult moments or the moments of
Belinda Haan:suffering or, or resistance to what's happening, the, the difficulty,
Belinda Haan:the darkness, whatever you wanna.
Belinda Haan:Call it whatever the experience is.
Belinda Haan:And I think there's a scale on, these experiences as well.
Belinda Haan:But without those, how do we access the light?
Belinda Haan:How do we access the deeper parts of ourselves that are waiting
Belinda Haan:there to be liberated, for us to become more authentic, to become.
Belinda Haan:Connected to what we genuinely want rather than what we have been
Belinda Haan:conditioned to want, or, or, or whatever.
Belinda Haan:So without that, the forgetting, we can't actually deepen into the remembering.
Sonya Stattmann:Yeah, I love that.
Sonya Stattmann:And, and I think, you know, the other really important part of
Sonya Stattmann:this topic, this conversation, is that it doesn't stop, right?
Sonya Stattmann:Like I think there sometimes we have this idea that one day we'll be enlightened
Sonya Stattmann:enough, one day we'll be aware enough, one day we will reach some pinnacle of
Sonya Stattmann:success, you know, our self development or whatever, that we will stop.
Sonya Stattmann:Right.
Sonya Stattmann:That we'll stop reacting, that we'll be able to handle
Sonya Stattmann:everything that comes our way.
Sonya Stattmann:And, and that's so unrealistic.
Sonya Stattmann:Right.
Sonya Stattmann:And, and I know I've had so many times where even though on one level
Sonya Stattmann:I understand that I still forget.
Sonya Stattmann:Right.
Sonya Stattmann:And then I, I get caught up in like striving for some place of ease
Sonya Stattmann:that it will just always be easy at, clinging to that, remembering
Sonya Stattmann:and clinging to that awareness.
Sonya Stattmann:And, trying to really embrace that.
Sonya Stattmann:I will still have hard times that, like, forgetting something and then moving to
Sonya Stattmann:that, remember it, it can be a really challenging process and I don't think it,
Sonya Stattmann:gets to this place where it's all easy.
Belinda Haan:Absolutely.
Belinda Haan:Oh my gosh.
Belinda Haan:And this is, this part of the conversation is really just an ongoing journey for me.
Belinda Haan:Because I'm a proactive person, you know, who's always sort of been able to problem
Belinda Haan:solve and all of that, and I, I remember the despair that I felt at different times
Belinda Haan:because I have forgotten, even though I.
Belinda Haan:Intellectually, no.
Belinda Haan:I just need to surrender.
Belinda Haan:You know, all of the, the formula that I, in my mind I've thought this
Belinda Haan:is the formula to get to remembering.
Belinda Haan:but it's the, the forgetting, the, the journey is, it is never ending.
Belinda Haan:It really is never ending.
Belinda Haan:And.
Belinda Haan:We can have a preference for it to end , we can have a preference to live in
Belinda Haan:the light and, and live in remembering, but that's just not how things work.
Belinda Haan:And, and I know that at different times I've been like, I can't believe
Belinda Haan:I'm still hooked by my inner critic.
Belinda Haan:just like, what is going on?
Belinda Haan:I have done so much therapy.
Belinda Haan:So much self-reflection, so much meditation, so many things, you know,
Belinda Haan:to, but really what I was trying to do was get rid of the inner critic
Sonya Stattmann:exactly.
Belinda Haan:the motivation was to get rid of it.
Belinda Haan:And so then when it kept popping up, I'm like, why are you still here?
Belinda Haan:You know, that's just, and the frustration that happens.
Belinda Haan:But what, what I've found is that those deeper patternings do continually come.
Belinda Haan:And I can sort of have the, the view.
Belinda Haan:I thought I dealt with this.
Belinda Haan:I, there's something really wrong with me.
Belinda Haan:Why?
Belinda Haan:You know, I've had, I've spent so much time working on this, but actually
Belinda Haan:it's not that I haven't progressed in inverted comments, , but that I'm
Belinda Haan:actually seeing it from a deeper, deeper level and a different angle.
Belinda Haan:And, and so there's so much benefit in that because it liberates us every time,
Belinda Haan:even though it's painful, sometimes we can be really possessed in, in our
Belinda Haan:conditioning and really, you know, and as we grow in awareness, that can be
Belinda Haan:even more painful cause we've got this.
Belinda Haan:This observer that's going, I cannot believe that you are forgetting.
Belinda Haan:Like, don't you know, blah, blah, blah.
Belinda Haan:what?
Belinda Haan:Why aren't you doing all your practices
Sonya Stattmann:Yeah.
Sonya Stattmann:Mm-hmm.
Belinda Haan:but that there's, there's, there's actually a deepening
Belinda Haan:happening and an opening happening.
Belinda Haan:that deeper connection to self that actually happens through seeing
Belinda Haan:the same pattern in different.
Sonya Stattmann:Yes, exactly.
Sonya Stattmann:it's so funny cuz you know, even talking about this, I feel like.
Sonya Stattmann:I've gone through so many cycles of this, right?
Sonya Stattmann:So many perspectives of this, so many, so many times I've forgotten and remembering
Sonya Stattmann:it's just like this constant process.
Sonya Stattmann:but yeah, I still get to points where I think We're good, right?
Sonya Stattmann:Like I still get to points where I somehow bind this lesion.
Sonya Stattmann:We're good, we're good.
Sonya Stattmann:Like, you know, and then the next thing kind of surfaces and I think when we
Sonya Stattmann:forget ourselves, It's a really intense process and, and like you said, I
Sonya Stattmann:mean there is a, a gradient, right?
Sonya Stattmann:Like, you know, we can forget ourselves a little bit or we can
Sonya Stattmann:forget ourselves a lot, right?
Sonya Stattmann:And so, you know, depending on what pattern we're facing, what we're
Sonya Stattmann:looking at, what we're surrendering to, what we're contemplating, right?
Sonya Stattmann:It can be this really kind of mild forgetting where we just kind of
Sonya Stattmann:lose ourselves for a little bit.
Sonya Stattmann:Or it can be this really intense forgetting where we're
Sonya Stattmann:almost like another person.
Sonya Stattmann:, right?
Sonya Stattmann:Like we're, we're totally not ourselves and we're like, what is happening here?
Sonya Stattmann:and so I think just being able to talk about this, right?
Sonya Stattmann:to embrace this, to explore this, to look at it from this level.
Sonya Stattmann:I think this is a really important conversation because even a lot of
Sonya Stattmann:people that I know who are, you know, well into the self development field,
Sonya Stattmann:do a lot of work on themselves.
Sonya Stattmann:They still.
Sonya Stattmann:Beat themselves up when this surfaces right.
Sonya Stattmann:They struggle with the forgetting.
Sonya Stattmann:And so I think, you know, this is so important cause I don't feel like we
Sonya Stattmann:talk about this enough in our circles to be like, this is normal, this is
Sonya Stattmann:natural, this is just part of the process.
Sonya Stattmann:This has a purpose.
Sonya Stattmann:And I think if we can embrace that, it's gonna, it makes it, I don't
Sonya Stattmann:know, I don't know if easier is the right word, to more tolerable or
Sonya Stattmann:stomach.
Belinda Haan:yes.
Belinda Haan:A absolutely.
Belinda Haan:Like I wholeheartedly agree that if we could build a societal and cultural
Belinda Haan:NA narrative about the importance of.
Belinda Haan:Difficulty and suffering , you know, like that, that is just not part of Instagram.
Belinda Haan:It's not part of even friendship conversations.
Belinda Haan:it's not part of, the narrative in society that we suffer
Belinda Haan:and that we have difficulty.
Belinda Haan:And so what, what can happen is then we suffer and have difficulty, and we
Belinda Haan:assume that there's something wrong.
Sonya Stattmann:yes.
Belinda Haan:you know, why can't we just be stronger and more resilient
Belinda Haan:like all of those other people?
Belinda Haan:But the reality is that we are under a delusion, , that no one suffers except
Belinda Haan:for us, . And, and, and the reality is that we all have our cross to bear.
Belinda Haan:We all have our challenges, we all have our points of
Belinda Haan:activation, points of struggle.
Belinda Haan:And you know, like you said, sometimes it's little struggle.
Belinda Haan:Sometimes it's.
Belinda Haan:You're on your knees in that despair.
Belinda Haan:But there's, there's very little conversation.
Belinda Haan:And certainly when we were growing up,
Sonya Stattmann:Oh yeah,
Belinda Haan:you know, just get over it.
Belinda Haan:You're okay.
Belinda Haan:Oh, there's nothing to be sad about.
Belinda Haan:All of those, those kind of just very normal human responses to life, we're told
Belinda Haan:that they're wrong and they don't belong.
Belinda Haan:And so we.
Belinda Haan:Assume that we're doing something wrong or that something, we're
Belinda Haan:not able to handle this better, and so then we start constructing.
Belinda Haan:I'm not going to feel difficulty and suffering anymore because that means
Belinda Haan:that there's something wrong with me and then that's just too painful,
Belinda Haan:so I'm just going to do these other things so that I don't have to allow.
Belinda Haan:because it is really truly about allowing our suffering and
Belinda Haan:difficulty without judgment and with a compassionate awareness.
Belinda Haan:That is where the liberation comes from.
Belinda Haan:Like I've definitely at different times thought, I just wanna be free to
Belinda Haan:be me, and that really what I'm, what I'm actually working through is that
Belinda Haan:that's actually just about allowing.
Belinda Haan:Every experience to be there as it is with compassion.
Belinda Haan:That is the practice.
Belinda Haan:It's not about getting rid of the inner critic or getting rid of
Belinda Haan:suffering and difficulty because it's not actually realistic.
Sonya Stattmann:Yes.
Sonya Stattmann:I love how you mentioned it as a practice because you know it's not,
Sonya Stattmann:you know, this mission or this ultimate goal that we're looking for, right?
Sonya Stattmann:practice and no matter how, Much, you know, how skilled you are.
Sonya Stattmann:It's still a practice.
Sonya Stattmann:we have to embrace it every day.
Sonya Stattmann:We have to accept it, we have to practice with it.
Sonya Stattmann:You know, it's not just something that we're going to arrive at, like, oh, here
Sonya Stattmann:we are, we're all self-developed and good.
Sonya Stattmann:Right?
Sonya Stattmann:It's like every day it's a practice and, and I think, you know, if
Sonya Stattmann:you drill it down, Even in this, this idea of this podcast, right?
Sonya Stattmann:Or this idea of remembering or reclaiming ourselves, right?
Sonya Stattmann:I feel like so often people are trying to grasp this kind of idea of
Sonya Stattmann:empowerment or this idea of like, I'm gonna find my amazing self, right?
Sonya Stattmann:And yes, you are amazing, right?
Sonya Stattmann:It there is an amazing self.
Sonya Stattmann:It is about being with, it's not about being perfect.
Sonya Stattmann:It's not about being amazing.
Sonya Stattmann:It's not about being calm all the time.
Sonya Stattmann:it is about embracing whatever shows up, whatever is there, whatever
Sonya Stattmann:flows into your life, right?
Sonya Stattmann:It's about being with of those things, with compassion and, you
Sonya Stattmann:know, that looks very, very different.
Sonya Stattmann:Like, you know, in a lot of.
Sonya Stattmann:Uh, studies I've done around trauma and different things.
Sonya Stattmann:people will talk about how Being activated, be having
Sonya Stattmann:reactions is totally normal.
Sonya Stattmann:we are wired to have reactions and to to react to other people's nervous systems.
Sonya Stattmann:For instance, like our nervous systems talk to other people's nervous.
Sonya Stattmann:If we aren't having an activation when other people are activated
Sonya Stattmann:around us, that is not normal, right?
Sonya Stattmann:That is suppression, that is trying to be something we're not.
Sonya Stattmann:Now, what you know, we can get skilled in is embracing that
Sonya Stattmann:activation or embracing that reaction.
Sonya Stattmann:And then finding a way to be with it, right?
Sonya Stattmann:Finding a way to navigate our nervous system, finding
Sonya Stattmann:a way to regulate ourselves.
Sonya Stattmann:And so like that is something we can get skilled in and practice with, but
Sonya Stattmann:we are never going to be naturally at a place where like, we're never activated,
Sonya Stattmann:we're always zen, we're always calm.
Sonya Stattmann:and I really think in the self-development world, like this is not really.
Sonya Stattmann:Stood because so many people are still trying to be calm.
Sonya Stattmann:And then when someone reacts in front of them, they're like, you
Sonya Stattmann:know, they judge and they're like, oh, well I'm just gonna stay calm.
Sonya Stattmann:like, that's the goal.
Sonya Stattmann:And so I think this is a really important understanding that we need to
Sonya Stattmann:have, that it's okay to be activated, that we're all gonna be activated.
Sonya Stattmann:That is just part of the process.
Sonya Stattmann:And then we can practice being with that so that we're
Sonya Stattmann:able to regulate more effect.
Belinda Haan:Yes.
Belinda Haan:A hundred times.
Belinda Haan:Yes, I totally and wholeheartedly agree and just wanna pull out
Belinda Haan:the, the practice part, you know?
Belinda Haan:That's so true.
Belinda Haan:And, and even the ordinariness of this, you know, I think that sometimes we can.
Belinda Haan:Feel.
Belinda Haan:I know it's certain I'm talking for me , that I just need one more therapy session.
Belinda Haan:One more insight, one more book, one more training, one more great conversation.
Belinda Haan:One more like flash of insight and then everything's gonna be okay,
Belinda Haan:but, but it's actually not real.
Belinda Haan:I mean, there can be moments of huge insight and huge
Belinda Haan:remembering and spaciousness and that's all really wonderful.
Belinda Haan:But really, it's actually very.
Belinda Haan:It's a brick by brick, day by day, moment by moment practice.
Sonya Stattmann:yeah.
Sonya Stattmann:I love that.
Sonya Stattmann:So much of this striving right, is rooted in the way that we've
Sonya Stattmann:been trained or in the survival mechanisms that we have, right?
Sonya Stattmann:And I don't think we realize how invasive these thoughts are, right?
Sonya Stattmann:Like how much of our being is focused on, getting ahead on, competing.
Sonya Stattmann:being the best of ourselves, right?
Sonya Stattmann:Even though we might say, oh, I'm not competitive, or I'm not
Sonya Stattmann:trying to achieve anything for anybody else, that we struggle to
Sonya Stattmann:be the best of ourselves, right?
Sonya Stattmann:We're always kind of moving to this achievement, trying to be better,
Sonya Stattmann:trying to trying to be perfect, right?
Sonya Stattmann:idea is so root.
Sonya Stattmann:Everything and every system and every thought process, and every way we
Sonya Stattmann:respond, and I don't think we really understand how deep it goes, whereas
Sonya Stattmann:when we start to look at just, being with whatever comes, right, not fixing
Sonya Stattmann:it, not transforming it, not, removing it, not becoming better over it.
Sonya Stattmann:Right?
Sonya Stattmann:We.
Sonya Stattmann:Look at being with whatever's here that's so foreign to the way that we look at
Sonya Stattmann:the world that's so foreign to lens that we look through you know, right
Sonya Stattmann:now in the point in my life, I feel like I'm really in this, like deeply this.
Sonya Stattmann:You know, not achieving, right?
Sonya Stattmann:Like not being productive, being okay to just sit with where I'm actually
Sonya Stattmann:at and not try to be anything else or transform myself or improve myself
Sonya Stattmann:and it is a frigging struggle because it is like in every layer of my
Sonya Stattmann:being.
Belinda Haan:Yes, absolutely.
Belinda Haan:And, and I know like you and I are not new to this, like we have been, you know,
Belinda Haan:discussing this together and, you know, on, on our own personal journeys as well.
Belinda Haan:And, and I mean, I also am really in this too, and, and I am.
Belinda Haan:I've just noticed ahead of every single episode for this podcast, it's like all
Belinda Haan:of the shadowy materials just coming up for me to look at and, and you know, I
Belinda Haan:have been absolutely deep in forgetting, you know, in the last few weeks I've
Belinda Haan:got really sick, really, really sick.
Belinda Haan:And yet I just was reading Buddhism books and all of this, which is all
Belinda Haan:beautiful, but there was a desperation.
Belinda Haan:To it.
Belinda Haan:Like, please, can I just get rid of this suffering?
Belinda Haan:I don't wanna be sick.
Belinda Haan:This is inconvenient.
Belinda Haan:and don't you find that these things also do come up at inconvenient times as well?
Belinda Haan:We, and then the resistance is just really, um, really up.
Belinda Haan:And, and so it's, gosh, it's such a journey and humil.
Belinda Haan:Such a journey in humility and the deep suffering that I've felt on
Belinda Haan:a psychological, emotional, and physical level in the last three
Belinda Haan:weeks has been really, really peak.
Belinda Haan:And I'm starting to, thankfully having some more light come in
Belinda Haan:as I've been really practicing.
Belinda Haan:Surrendering to this moment and bringing compassion to this moment, and the
Belinda Haan:little nuggets are coming through.
Belinda Haan:So I, I would, if we would've spoken last week, I would've said, this is terrible.
Belinda Haan:I just don't want this.
Belinda Haan:And I've done, there's nothing that I've done, no personal development's worked,
Belinda Haan:you know, all of that kind of thing.
Belinda Haan:but now on the other side, you know, as I.
Belinda Haan:Little bits of light can be shine, shine.
Belinda Haan:Upon this experience, I have gained a deeper understanding of myself and, and
Belinda Haan:so when we are in that real suffering or real, really possessed by our conditioning
Belinda Haan:or, or in that deep forgetting, we just think there's no point that,
Belinda Haan:you know, what's the point of this?
Belinda Haan:I've done, you know, I've done all this work and nothing
Belinda Haan:has actually worked, but as.
Belinda Haan:as you open to the experience and to what you are, what you're experiencing
Belinda Haan:internally with a little bit of acceptance so that compassion can come in.
Belinda Haan:It's afterwards that you go, wow, gosh, I really have a
Belinda Haan:deeper understanding of myself.
Belinda Haan:and this is a really interesting pattern that I'm noticing in my times of greatest
Belinda Haan:need , like when I really, really need support and need to be on my own side.
Belinda Haan:I have abandoned myself, . It's, it's just such a pattern for me to, in,
Belinda Haan:in the times of most need to just really judge myself for suffering and,
Belinda Haan:and, and really sort of see, oh my gosh, I should be, you know, open and
Belinda Haan:spacious and accepting and all of that.
Belinda Haan:And, and partly I think, It's, it's because I sometimes see forgetting bad,
Belinda Haan:remembering good . But actually, if I can deepen down to the truth below this,
Belinda Haan:that both exist and there's a part of me self that can hold it all, it can hold
Belinda Haan:all of the ways that I'm constricted.
Belinda Haan:Misaligned and all of that, and my openness and spaciousness, they both exist
Belinda Haan:and at the ground of this is the ground of being, which is able to hold it all.
Sonya Stattmann:Yes.
Sonya Stattmann:It so much reminds me of like, the, yin and young right?
Sonya Stattmann:Right.
Sonya Stattmann:It's like, these are two halves of one thing.
Sonya Stattmann:Not like we want one thing and not the other.
Sonya Stattmann:Because remembering is a part of forgetting, and forgetting
Sonya Stattmann:is a part of remembering.
Sonya Stattmann:And there there is like this really powerful.
Sonya Stattmann:Place that you can hold it when you can hold both.
Sonya Stattmann:And you know, I was thinking as well.
Sonya Stattmann:it's so amazing when you're able to recognize that this
Sonya Stattmann:is life's process, right?
Sonya Stattmann:And to create space for it.
Sonya Stattmann:Because one of the things I've really struggled with in so much
Sonya Stattmann:of my life is, you know, like so many other people, I busied myself.
Sonya Stattmann:I filled my whole schedule.
Sonya Stattmann:I, there was no time for forgetting, right?
Sonya Stattmann:There was no, I didn't build in time to go through a process.
Sonya Stattmann:And so then when something happened, right, when a reaction
Sonya Stattmann:happened, when a sickness happened, when you know, something, you
Sonya Stattmann:know, fell upon me in my life.
Sonya Stattmann:You know, there was no time to process it.
Sonya Stattmann:There was no time to go through this, you know, natural unfolding
Sonya Stattmann:so that I could remember.
Sonya Stattmann:Again.
Sonya Stattmann:everything was too busy.
Sonya Stattmann:And I think when we understand that this is life's process.
Sonya Stattmann:That reaction is going to be normal for the rest of our lives, and that we need
Sonya Stattmann:to slow down to build space in to, you know, move easily and moved in difficulty.
Sonya Stattmann:Right?
Sonya Stattmann:that is a really empowering process that changes the way we operate in
Sonya Stattmann:the world and operate in our lives.
Sonya Stattmann:because the truth is, is that the remembering comes when we
Sonya Stattmann:surrender to the forgetting.
Belinda Haan:Totally
Sonya Stattmann:Surrendering requires space, right?
Sonya Stattmann:If we, if we're so filled up, that every moment is pulling us
Sonya Stattmann:forward, every moment is a have to, every moment is an obligation.
Sonya Stattmann:There is no ability to surrender, and therefore no ability to remember
Belinda Haan:Yes.
Belinda Haan:Oh my gosh.
Belinda Haan:So, so true.
Belinda Haan:And when we are really busy, yeah.
Belinda Haan:Like you said, we just can't, it's just an inconvenience, that, that this is here.
Belinda Haan:And so we just.
Belinda Haan:Well, I do just then could get busier because it's just like, oh gosh, there's,
Belinda Haan:and then we can feel like, oh, there's this darkness just waiting for me.
Belinda Haan:I better get busy so that I've just, but if we, if we can even,
Belinda Haan:dip down, you know, we looking at ways and rituals of connection.
Belinda Haan:So that we can process as we go, and I know that sometimes when I'm in
Belinda Haan:that remembering spaciousness and really productive time, I can just
Belinda Haan:go with it a hundred miles an hour.
Belinda Haan:But what I'm really trying to do now is just get a little bit stronger
Belinda Haan:rituals of connection to allow the space for what's actually present, which.
Belinda Haan:Can be really difficult, emotions can be overwhelmed, all of that kind of thing
Belinda Haan:so that we can continue to connect with ourselves so that we don't wait to, to
Belinda Haan:a crisis point, um, all of the time.
Sonya Stattmann:Yes.
Sonya Stattmann:Yes.
Sonya Stattmann:It's funny, I was just reading, Richard Schwartz's book, the No Bad
Sonya Stattmann:Parts, like
Belinda Haan:Yeah.
Belinda Haan:Oh, it's one of my favorite books,
Sonya Stattmann:Yeah, it's a really good book.
Sonya Stattmann:And, you know, I love this, this thing he talks about in the introduction cuz
Sonya Stattmann:he, he talks about how, you know, so many people came to him for therapy when
Sonya Stattmann:they were at this crisis point, right?
Sonya Stattmann:Like something major happened.
Sonya Stattmann:And other than that they felt like they were successful,
Sonya Stattmann:they were moving through life.
Sonya Stattmann:And then, they finally had this moment right when a crisis happened where
Sonya Stattmann:some light could get through the cracks of their protective foundations.
Sonya Stattmann:And then he ma he has this line that I think is really important.
Sonya Stattmann:He says, those can be wake up call events.
Sonya Stattmann:If I can help them keep the striving, the materialistic, the competitive
Sonya Stattmann:parts of them that had dominated their lives from reclaiming dominance,
Sonya Stattmann:they can explore what's inside of.
Sonya Stattmann:. I can really feel that or this powerful visual right?
Sonya Stattmann:Is that, we wait until we have these major crises for the light to come
Sonya Stattmann:in, for the crack to come in, right?
Sonya Stattmann:Cause we spent our whole lives with these protective parts dominating every
Sonya Stattmann:moment to be busy, to be materialistic, to be productive, to be successful.
Sonya Stattmann:And we don't allow any of the integration, we don't allow any of.
Sonya Stattmann:Essential self parts to come through.
Sonya Stattmann:you know, that's such a, an important thing to realize.
Sonya Stattmann:And when we create space, and you know, I think we've talked about
Sonya Stattmann:this many times in this podcast.
Sonya Stattmann:When we create space, things naturally come up.
Sonya Stattmann:I mean, remembering is our nature like, and so is forgetting, right?
Sonya Stattmann:Forgetting.
Sonya Stattmann:And the activation is also our nature, but remembering is also our nature.
Sonya Stattmann:And so if we allow space, the parts of ourselves that wanna be integrated,
Sonya Stattmann:the parts of ourselves that wanna be heard, the parts of ourselves that
Sonya Stattmann:wanna be acknowledged, they naturally.
Sonya Stattmann:And I think that's one reason why we all run, why we you
Sonya Stattmann:know, are on the rat wheel.
Sonya Stattmann:Why we all are busy all the time is that we don't know how to face those parts.
Sonya Stattmann:We don't know how to acknowledge and look at those parts in so
Sonya Stattmann:many ways because we've been conditioned that they're bad parts.
Sonya Stattmann:Right.
Sonya Stattmann:That all of these things inside of us that are there, the grief or the anger
Sonya Stattmann:or the feelings that are there or the, the patterns that are at play that we
Sonya Stattmann:don't appreciate or like we consider them bad parts, and because of that,
Sonya Stattmann:we don't know how to navigate them.
Sonya Stattmann:We don't know how to deal with them.
Sonya Stattmann:Right.
Sonya Stattmann:I really feel like the, the key to the world is raising
Sonya Stattmann:emotional intelligence, right?
Sonya Stattmann:Like, that's the key to every single thing that's happening in the world.
Sonya Stattmann:Like that is like the solution because when people embrace their emotions,
Sonya Stattmann:they embrace all parts of themselves.
Sonya Stattmann:they wake up to their compassion, they wake up to their connection
Sonya Stattmann:I think that is gonna be a really, really amazing world.
Sonya Stattmann:Um, but it's very interesting.
Sonya Stattmann:How we're functioning in the world today and how, you know, clueless,
Sonya Stattmann:we are about our own bodies, right?
Sonya Stattmann:Our own systems, and how we
Sonya Stattmann:work.
Belinda Haan:Yes, uh, I agree.
Belinda Haan:I really do think emotions are the portal to.
Belinda Haan:Everything.
Belinda Haan:and I really do love that book as well.
Belinda Haan:Ifs is just, I, I love, love that work so much and, and when we come
Belinda Haan:to have intimacy with our little in, in inner family as internal family
Belinda Haan:systems talk about, we can really just naturally build compassion
Belinda Haan:because, you know, and I've got, I've.
Belinda Haan:As I do mapped out my internal family, what I, what I know of it,
Sonya Stattmann:I love
Belinda Haan:and, and you know, there's, I've got a very strong destroyer part
Belinda Haan:that just cuts everything, you know, and That destroy part is, is there,
Belinda Haan:when I'm under heightened threat, my nervous system is like alarms are ringing
Belinda Haan:and it's like a collapse response.
Belinda Haan:You know, I don't, you cannot take anything more on, um, you
Belinda Haan:just need to surrender into whatever is, is present and of.
Belinda Haan:I might have a preference for the destroyer not to be here, and
Belinda Haan:I might even say that's wrong.
Belinda Haan:I don't like the destroyer, but ultimately it's an innocent part
Belinda Haan:that's just trying to help me.
Belinda Haan:Stay.
Belinda Haan:Okay.
Sonya Stattmann:Yeah.
Belinda Haan:you know, and then there's other parts.
Belinda Haan:There's empowering parts that's saying you can do it and you know, and so
Belinda Haan:that can create a bit of internal conflict as we do have competing
Belinda Haan:parts and that sort of thing.
Belinda Haan:But as we start to sort of recognize that we've all got.
Belinda Haan:Different parts in, in us.
Belinda Haan:And as we can start building a relationship with those inner
Belinda Haan:parts, we empower ourselves greatly.
Belinda Haan:And we just can access so much compassion because these parts happen because we were
Belinda Haan:struggling and we needed support and we, you know, that was the, it was so innocent
Belinda Haan:and so beautiful and so intelligent.
Belinda Haan:And, and once we start to understand more about what's happening in, in our inner
Belinda Haan:world, Become friends with that, then we, we experience greater liberation, I think.
Sonya Stattmann:Yeah, a hundred percent.
Sonya Stattmann:And definitely my experiences, when we have compassion with our
Sonya Stattmann:inner parts, it automatically, it extends empathy and compassion
Sonya Stattmann:to everyone else's parts, right?
Sonya Stattmann:And so often when we're judging someone else or we're reacting to someone
Sonya Stattmann:else, we're activated by someone else.
Sonya Stattmann:It's because that part inside of ourselves.
Sonya Stattmann:Has not felt the compassion, right?
Sonya Stattmann:We've not had self-compassion for that part, or we wanna get rid of it, or,
Sonya Stattmann:you know, there's something that's triggered in us that we haven't looked at.
Sonya Stattmann:but when we embrace all of our parts, it's so easy to embrace
Sonya Stattmann:everyone else's parts and.
Sonya Stattmann:I just think that's so, so important, you know, and I think,
Sonya Stattmann:you know, turning that back around as well, not only, do we forget and
Sonya Stattmann:remember, but so does everyone else.
Sonya Stattmann:Right?
Sonya Stattmann:It's so easy.
Sonya Stattmann:I think as well sometimes when we're on the self development journey to be
Sonya Stattmann:like, Okay, I need more self-compassion.
Sonya Stattmann:Yes.
Sonya Stattmann:I forget and remember.
Sonya Stattmann:And then our partner does something and we're like, how could you do that?
Sonya Stattmann:How could you do that?
Sonya Stattmann:Aren't you more aware?
Sonya Stattmann:Like why aren't you more aware?
Sonya Stattmann:Like how many times we've been through this process, but they forget and remember
Sonya Stattmann:too, and that's the natural process.
Sonya Stattmann:And I think that, you know, this is really helpful when we really get this,
Sonya Stattmann:when we really kind of understand this to be able to extend that kind of love
Sonya Stattmann:and understanding to others because you know, especially people who aren't as
Sonya Stattmann:into self development or who haven't done as much work or, you know, even if they
Sonya Stattmann:have right, we all forget and remember.
Sonya Stattmann:And so it's being able to, to look at everybody with some grace to say,
Sonya Stattmann:oh, they're in there forgetting.
Sonya Stattmann:And that's.
Sonya Stattmann:And then, you know, hopefully they'll find the path to remembering.
Sonya Stattmann:But you know, we can hold a space and compassion for
Sonya Stattmann:that.
Belinda Haan:Yes.
Belinda Haan:And it's not up to us to solve them , you know, like that, that's
Belinda Haan:just such a natural, um, response.
Belinda Haan:Especially as we're on the path and we sort of know, you know, we know
Belinda Haan:a lot about personal development and growth to then, you know, share.
Belinda Haan:You just need to, I and I.
Belinda Haan:So, I mean, so guilty of this myself, but I, I just really, and I'm very
Belinda Haan:aligned to your emotional intelligence.
Belinda Haan:Um, you know, the importance of that, and this is, this is so related, is
Belinda Haan:our ability to hold space for others in forgetting and remembering, that
Belinda Haan:will change the world if we could just have, you know, if we could all
Belinda Haan:build our compassionate presence to be with others in particularly in their
Belinda Haan:suffering, and not make them wrong, not make their experience wrong, and
Belinda Haan:we make it wrong by trying to fix them or positive over it or whatever.
Belinda Haan:But if we can just hold space for whatever's present, including.
Belinda Haan:The suffering and darkness and know that it's actually, it's
Belinda Haan:just like fertilizer for them.
Belinda Haan:It's actually perfect.
Belinda Haan:You know, of course we can have a preference to deeply wanna alleviate
Belinda Haan:their suffering and we can do different compassion practices to
Belinda Haan:support them and, ask them, what, what can we do to support you?
Belinda Haan:It's not saying, Absolve responsibility or don't care.
Belinda Haan:But it, we care by showing them that they're okay.
Belinda Haan:We're here for them.
Belinda Haan:We can hold space for them, and we don't, we are not worried that
Belinda Haan:they're in suffering and darkness.
Belinda Haan:We, we, we can hold that because we love them.
Belinda Haan:We believe in them and we know that that exists in us too.
Belinda Haan:And, and I really have felt.
Belinda Haan:You know, really a big change in my ability to hold space for others.
Belinda Haan:Since I can hold, not all the time, hold space for my own difficulty.
Belinda Haan:As that grows, I can, I can do that more easily with others.
Sonya Stattmann:Yes, and that is it.
Sonya Stattmann:It's the capacity to, hold the darkness in ourselves or hold the
Sonya Stattmann:forgetting or hold the activation or you know, however you wanna label it.
Sonya Stattmann:You know, when we're able to hold that, it is so much easier to hold others.
Sonya Stattmann:And I think often When we want to so desperately alleviate someone else's
Sonya Stattmann:suffering, it's actually for me, a red flag to look at what is it that I,
Sonya Stattmann:am trying to avoid in myself, right?
Sonya Stattmann:What do I not wanna feel that they're feeling?
Sonya Stattmann:You know?
Sonya Stattmann:So sometimes we do this with grief, right?
Sonya Stattmann:Someone experiences such deep grief in our presence.
Sonya Stattmann:And instead of being able to hold that for them, we tell
Sonya Stattmann:them, oh, it's gonna be fine.
Sonya Stattmann:You'll find else.
Sonya Stattmann:Or, over time it will lessen or whatever we do because we have avoided
Sonya Stattmann:the grief inside of us from someone we lost or something that we've lost.
Sonya Stattmann:And, and so I think that's in so many ways, while we're afraid to hold
Sonya Stattmann:others in their darkness or in their challenge or in their suffering, is
Sonya Stattmann:because we haven't really held our.
Belinda Haan:Absolutely.
Belinda Haan:And what a gift we can give the world, our friends, our loved ones.
Belinda Haan:If we can build our capacity to be with our own suffering and
Belinda Haan:therefore be able to be with theirs, like this is a lifelong journey.
Belinda Haan:This is not.
Belinda Haan:A course that is one and done.
Belinda Haan:This is a lifelong, like you said, practice to keep coming back to
Belinda Haan:holding space for our own difficulty and therefore being able to hold
Belinda Haan:space for the suffering of others.
Belinda Haan:And, through being able to do that, we give them the gift of our belief in.
Sonya Stattmann:Yes.
Sonya Stattmann:and it's not easy.
Sonya Stattmann:Like, you know, in particular, I find it's really challenging with family, right?
Sonya Stattmann:It's really hard to.
Sonya Stattmann:allow your family to sit in their suffering, especially,
Sonya Stattmann:um, especially your kids.
Sonya Stattmann:Like, I least this is for me, like, my kids is the most challenging piece
Sonya Stattmann:for me to allow suffering for them.
Sonya Stattmann:it can be really difficult.
Sonya Stattmann:I think it's a, it's really important in this process to recognize that
Sonya Stattmann:we're all going through that, and the more we can hold of others and hold
Sonya Stattmann:in ourselves, the more powerful it is.
Sonya Stattmann:I feel like this is so helpful just to kind of embrace and understand
Sonya Stattmann:this process of forgetting and remembering and to just acknowledge
Sonya Stattmann:how natural it is and that it's this cyclical process that we're going to
Sonya Stattmann:experience for the rest of our lives.
Sonya Stattmann:, I feel like that's, you know, that's a powerful piece of it.
Sonya Stattmann:as we wrap up for today, Belinda, is there anything that you'd like to kind of
Sonya Stattmann:finish off with in terms of this topic.
Belinda Haan:Yeah, I just, I just wanted to sort of say when we are,
Belinda Haan:when we are aware, like after we've listened to this and we are, we're
Belinda Haan:aware that we've, you know, maybe been hooked by our conditioning, we're in
Belinda Haan:that forgetting place, that it's really natural for us to resist that and, you
Belinda Haan:know, to judge ourselves for being in that place and everything like that.
Belinda Haan:Um, that is actually just part of the process and we can even
Belinda Haan:welcome our resistances to.
Belinda Haan:What's present and, and acknowledge that we'd prefer things to not be
Belinda Haan:like they are or even acknowledge that this is really hard at the
Belinda Haan:moment with our hands on our heart.
Belinda Haan:But I just thought in closing, I'd share this, um, this quote by Matt Karta, who's
Belinda Haan:got some beautiful books, um, particularly I think useful in that forgetting place.
Belinda Haan:Um, even though you might, maybe reading a book is not always the right thing.
Belinda Haan:That's just my strategy.
Belinda Haan:. Okay, so this is by Matt.
Belinda Haan:We no longer need feelings to go away, but want to know them more fully to infuse
Belinda Haan:them with curiosity, warmth, and presence.
Belinda Haan:We are no longer willing to turn away from our feelings and sensitivity to
Belinda Haan:attack our own vulnerability, to bail out of our bodies, or to meet the inner
Belinda Haan:world with violence and aggression.
Belinda Haan:Even if we do not like what appears, we begin to sense that it too has a
Belinda Haan:place in the large inner ecology of what we are somehow intelligently arising
Belinda Haan:here as part of our work and our art.
Sonya Stattmann:Mm.
Sonya Stattmann:I love that and I really love This idea like it so aligns with
Sonya Stattmann:my values and philosophy that everything inside of us isn't.
Sonya Stattmann:Intelligent,
Belinda Haan:Yes.
Sonya Stattmann:it all has a purpose, a mission, something it's
Sonya Stattmann:trying to do in an intelligent way.
Sonya Stattmann:And when we, when we can embrace that, then we can look at it with curiosity to
Sonya Stattmann:be like, Ooh, what is this part wanna say?
Sonya Stattmann:Or what is this piece of us, trying to, to accomplish?
Sonya Stattmann:but recognizing that all of it is intelligent is a really powerful.
Belinda Haan:Yes.
Belinda Haan:Yes, absolutely.
Sonya Stattmann:I love that.
Sonya Stattmann:Well, thank you for such a great topic today, Melinda, and thank you
Sonya Stattmann:to all of our listeners for, for being here, and we will see you next week.
Belinda Haan:Bye everyone.
Belinda Haan:Hi, it's Belinda.
Belinda Haan:I hope you were able to get some little nuggets of wisdom or maybe some seeds
Belinda Haan:of compassion through this episode.
Belinda Haan:If you would like to learn more about this topic, you can sign up
Belinda Haan:to my newsletter@belindahan.com.
Belinda Haan:Have an amazing day, and I hope to see you next time.
