Personal Development & Systemic Change | Exploring an Intersection

Reclaiming ourselves is a personal journey, but it’s also deeply rooted in our connection to other people, bigger systems, and whole societies! 

Laura joins Sonya to help us understand how we fit into this web of interconnection and how self-compassion sustains the drive for personal development AND systemic change.  

Join us as we discuss

  • 07:53 Why we unfairly blame ourselves for the effects of problematic systems on our personal growth.
  • 21:28 Finding your agency to create more positive systems and structures.
  • 22:47 How the critical context of power and privilege influences our choices. 
  • 32:31 The reality of our relational, connected existence.

Resources mentioned in the show

Learn more about Sonya & Laura

—> Sonya Stattmann is the host & creator of Reclaiming Ourselves™. She is a TEDx & corporate speaker, and has been working with leaders around personal development for the last 22 years. She teaches workshops & offers small group programs around emotional intelligence, transformational & embodied leadership and energy management. You can find more about her here:

Website: https://www.sonyastattmann.com/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonyastattmann/ 

—> Laura Shook-Guzman, co-host of Reclaiming Ourselves, LMFT, and Somatic Psychotherapist for entrepreneurs has been a mental health professional for 23 years. She’s the founder of three businesses; the world’s first Wellness Coworking Community Soma Vida, the global community Women Who Cowork, and her own therapy practice, Conscious Ambition. You can find more about her here: 

Website: http://www.laurashookguzman.com/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurashookguzman/ 

What you can do next:

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  3. Need a little weekly magic? Sign up for Worthy Love Notes & weekly affirmations here https://www.sonyastattmann.com/self-worth-affirmations-2/  

Thank you for being you. We are so honored to have you as a listener!

Transcript
Sonya Stattmann:

often we are operating from influences outside

Sonya Stattmann:

ourselves and it's very unconscious and it's often even misaligned with

Sonya Stattmann:

our values, and yet we don't know, we're operating, we're practicing.

Sonya Stattmann:

Every day in, things that are misaligned with our values, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

And so if we're not aware of that, if we're not understanding those influences,

Sonya Stattmann:

then we are, we stay unconscious about all the ways that we are doing things

Sonya Stattmann:

that are misaligned with our values.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so I think that's a really important conversation piece here too.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Yeah.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And I mean, it's.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

. Interesting.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Like you said, there's so many layers and we can continue to

Laura Shook-Guzman:

become more and more aware.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

But what it all kind of comes down to for me is how powerful that

Laura Shook-Guzman:

awareness is for self-compassion and compassion towards others.

Sonya Stattmann:

If you know there is something deep inside of you

Sonya Stattmann:

that is yearning to be seen, to be known, and to have expression.

Sonya Stattmann:

If there's something you need to reclaim and remember: maybe it's your

Sonya Stattmann:

power or your purpose, your gifts.

Sonya Stattmann:

This is the podcast for you.

Sonya Stattmann:

Welcome to Reclaiming Ourselves.

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm your host, Sonya Stattmann and I'm honored to have three amazing

Sonya Stattmann:

co-hosts, Laura Shook-Guzman, Belinda Haan, and Emily Soccorsy, here with

Sonya Stattmann:

me on this journey to self discovery.

Sonya Stattmann:

Every week we're gonna help you unravel and remember what it means to reclaim

Sonya Stattmann:

yourself, to own who you are, to recognize your innate worth and greatness.

Sonya Stattmann:

Now this podcast is a deep dive into self-development,

Sonya Stattmann:

healing, and empowerment.

Sonya Stattmann:

So hold on.

Sonya Stattmann:

Here we go.

Sonya Stattmann:

welcome back to Reclaiming Ourselves.

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm really excited today to talk a little bit about a topic that is

Sonya Stattmann:

kind of near and dear to my heart, and so of course I brought Laura on

Sonya Stattmann:

with me because we have such a great time at kind of unpacking these big

Sonya Stattmann:

topics and , the spontaneous flow of, you know, what will kind of unfold.

Sonya Stattmann:

I think that's what makes this podcast so magic is that we don't plan things.

Sonya Stattmann:

We don't, try to figure out what questions we're gonna ask.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's very spontaneous and we kind of see where these conversations go.

Sonya Stattmann:

And today I wanted to talk a little bit about something I've been exploring a.

Sonya Stattmann:

In my work, in myself, and it's this idea that there is an intersection

Sonya Stattmann:

between personal and self development and also the transformation that we

Sonya Stattmann:

need to make in the world, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

When we think about reclaiming ourselves, we often have this idea that there's

Sonya Stattmann:

all this burden on us that we've gotta change, that we've gotta transform that

Sonya Stattmann:

it's our limitations that we need to fix.

Sonya Stattmann:

And we don't always understand that there's a much bigger picture and there's

Sonya Stattmann:

this, intersection and bidirectional relationship between our personal

Sonya Stattmann:

selves and the bigger world self.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right?

Sonya Stattmann:

And so that's kind of what I wanna unpack and talk about, because I don't think

Sonya Stattmann:

we can talk about reclaiming ourselves without the context of the bigger picture.

Sonya Stattmann:

So what do you think, Laura?

Sonya Stattmann:

Welcome.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Thank you.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Thank you.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And you know, I just wanna comment that I love that about our conversations is

Laura Shook-Guzman:

that they flow and they aren't scripted.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And so we just kind of get to ride the magic of, you know, whatever shows up.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And I think that, you know, you're bringing such an important topic to

Laura Shook-Guzman:

light for many people who are wanting.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

To grow and change on a personal level.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

They often forget that, yeah, you're not existing within a vacuum.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

You do interact with this world around you.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And some of the aspects of our world encourage that level of curiosity and

Laura Shook-Guzman:

exploration and, and human development.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And then there's other aspects of our modern day world that is

Laura Shook-Guzman:

very, , counter to those efforts and like a lot of separation or sense

Laura Shook-Guzman:

of, you know, just kind of losing.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Our way and further creating doubts, you know, as we sort of look around,

Laura Shook-Guzman:

in the universe and think, who am I and who am I to create this change?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

But I think it's a message of hope that, like traditionally in, in the

Laura Shook-Guzman:

field of psychology, we, we think about systems, you know, so that we can,

Laura Shook-Guzman:

develop interventions and we can be more, you know, understanding of like

Laura Shook-Guzman:

everything that's impacting the human.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And sometimes that scene is like, here's all of these, um, stressors,

Laura Shook-Guzman:

you know, in the environment that we need to be aware of.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

But I also think it's a message of hope and that's like, look at all

Laura Shook-Guzman:

the things that are maybe conspiring to help the human development

Laura Shook-Guzman:

help us all as the species evolve.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

If we take up those.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

So, yeah, I think it's a really interesting one,

Laura Shook-Guzman:

to explore.

Sonya Stattmann:

it's a complex topic, there's no kind of,

Sonya Stattmann:

um, very simple explanation.

Sonya Stattmann:

You know, we are as an individual being impacted by the systems around us, and

Sonya Stattmann:

that includes our family system, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Our culture, our community.

Sonya Stattmann:

The way the world is society, right.

Sonya Stattmann:

the organizational systems like government and, I mean all the things that kind

Sonya Stattmann:

of impact us and education, Yes.

Sonya Stattmann:

And all the things kind of impact us and shift and change things,

Sonya Stattmann:

and we're being influenced by all of those things just as all those

Sonya Stattmann:

things are being influenced by us.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so I think it's this really interesting.

Sonya Stattmann:

Thing to look at.

Sonya Stattmann:

Traditionally, you know, as I've been studying a lot of, um, sort of traditional

Sonya Stattmann:

things around transformation, both organizational and social justice, and

Sonya Stattmann:

also, you know, personal development and personal transformation, typically

Sonya Stattmann:

there's the separation between the individual or, kind of the organization.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so you see in the individual, , there's a lot of work on how we feel,

Sonya Stattmann:

what we need to shift inside ourselves, and we don't always look at it in the

Sonya Stattmann:

context of the bigger environment.

Sonya Stattmann:

And same with like social justice platforms or things that are looking

Sonya Stattmann:

at, bigger organizational changes.

Sonya Stattmann:

We look at the organization.

Sonya Stattmann:

But we don't often provide support for the personal development.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right.

Sonya Stattmann:

So I think there's this, this really interesting kind of dissection

Sonya Stattmann:

right now in transformation.

Sonya Stattmann:

And you know, I guess this is quite interesting to me because I

Sonya Stattmann:

do a lot of organizational work in like in terms of transformation.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I do a lot of personal development work in terms of transformation, and

Sonya Stattmann:

I think you know, I'm watching where a lot of organizations have not taken

Sonya Stattmann:

any interest or, uh, priority in supporting the individual transformation

Sonya Stattmann:

within, which is very, very important.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I see that a lot of individuals are not understanding how that, you know,

Sonya Stattmann:

organization or the bigger systems are impacting their transformation.

Sonya Stattmann:

What do you think about that disconnection, Laura

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Yeah, I agree.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

I think that there has been, um, traditionally a lot of disconnection

Laura Shook-Guzman:

historically, and that kind of, and it continues, you know, I think on

Laura Shook-Guzman:

one hand it's this locus of control or this like illusion that for the

Laura Shook-Guzman:

individual, they feel like, especially in a large organization, that they

Laura Shook-Guzman:

don't have control over that, or they don't have much influence.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

So they put all of their, exon basket, so to speak, of like, Well, what can I do?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

You know, I'm gonna be the better person.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

I'm going to work on myself.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Like, it doesn't matter, you know?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Everything around me is, um, doing and saying I can still do whatever it is.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

It's, you know, in my intention and to a certain extent, That's true.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

There's individual agency, so you don't have to wait for an

Laura Shook-Guzman:

organization to give you permission.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

You can start being that change from within, but it's really important

Laura Shook-Guzman:

to realize that if that organization is going counter, if that system

Laura Shook-Guzman:

is going counter to your personal goals, then you're gonna be getting

Laura Shook-Guzman:

a lot of friction, you along the way.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

In which that organization or that system keeps pushing back.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

and then, you know, I think what I see with my clients in therapy is

Laura Shook-Guzman:

then a fatigue, a discouragement, and a personalization of things

Laura Shook-Guzman:

like, what's wrong with me because I can't, get to point A or point B.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And it's like, guess what?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

There's a whole other system here that's possibly pushing back.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

On that progress that you're trying to make as an individual.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

So let's be careful not to just personalize that.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Let's look at, well, what could the organization, what could be

Laura Shook-Guzman:

that larger organizing system?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

What could it.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Be doing that's prohibiting or supporting your personal growth.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And so let's look at it from a place of compassion.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Like, Oh, I'll have greater compassion for myself cuz I

Laura Shook-Guzman:

realize that it's challenging.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Or I have greater insight also into like, Oh, that's right.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

What if I brought to the team?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

This question of how about all of us are being negatively impacted by

Laura Shook-Guzman:

this organizational component, and what if we all decided to change

Laura Shook-Guzman:

that to see what would happen for us individually and then collectively?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

I think it's a fascinating question, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah.

Sonya Stattmann:

and I think.

Sonya Stattmann:

When we're talking about reclaiming ourselves, there's this, you know,

Sonya Stattmann:

incredible self-awareness, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

This is a lot of what we talk about in these podcasts, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

And these episodes is like, you know, there's, there's always this underlying

Sonya Stattmann:

idea of self-awareness, how powerful self-awareness is in and of itself.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so I think sometimes when you start to bring up this kind of topic about

Sonya Stattmann:

the intersection, People start to feel like overwhelmed or like, I don't know

Sonya Stattmann:

what to do about that and I know what to do about the bigger picture or you

Sonya Stattmann:

know, I don't know how to change things.

Sonya Stattmann:

But really there's this power and self awareness to recognize that we

Sonya Stattmann:

are being impacted by systems, you know, in a way beyond our control.

Sonya Stattmann:

to understand that, to have the self-awareness, I do think it

Sonya Stattmann:

brings a lot more self-compassion.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right.

Sonya Stattmann:

And self-understanding.

Sonya Stattmann:

And like, it lets us off the hook.

Sonya Stattmann:

Cuz I feel like in the personal development realm and you know, when

Sonya Stattmann:

we're, when we're looking to, to change and transform ourselves, often

Sonya Stattmann:

we take burdens on that aren't ours.

Sonya Stattmann:

Often we try to own and be responsible for things that are not ours.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so I think that when we have context, when we're able to, to kind of open

Sonya Stattmann:

our lens, to recognize there is bigger influences here that are affecting us,

Sonya Stattmann:

and we can look at that, we can understand that we can have compassion for that.

Sonya Stattmann:

And we can unburden ourselves with some of that responsibility.

Sonya Stattmann:

So, you know, this isn't a topic of just what do I do.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I think, you know, when we talk about social justice and things

Sonya Stattmann:

like that, oftentimes there's um, a lot of activism in that.

Sonya Stattmann:

There's a lot of like, I gotta get up and do something.

Sonya Stattmann:

And yes, when we are resourced again, when we are, in a position that we are

Sonya Stattmann:

resilient and we're able to navigate and take action and do the things

Sonya Stattmann:

that need to be done to change the.

Sonya Stattmann:

In our world, right, that are oppressive and that are holding back, these

Sonya Stattmann:

brilliant people and who are not equal, not good, not, you know, just

Sonya Stattmann:

when we, we do have to go and actively change those, but it starts with this

Sonya Stattmann:

awareness that there's even a connection.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I think when we have that, we start to, to recognize and even resource

Sonya Stattmann:

ourselves in the awareness, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Like, do you agree that like so many people.

Sonya Stattmann:

Look at, I've gotta go out and take action right now.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I'm not in any way saying, Don't take action.

Sonya Stattmann:

Don't do anything in the world.

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm also saying that awareness is a very powerful thing and we

Sonya Stattmann:

don't always appreciate that or understand the impact of that.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Oh yeah, a hundred percent agree with this because I feel

Laura Shook-Guzman:

like sometimes in a therapy session, I'm like holding up the big neon

Laura Shook-Guzman:

sign of like, this is the message.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

It's the self-awareness.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Like this is gonna change everything.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And for like, really?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Okay.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

You know?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

I know, but now what?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And it's like, But the knowing.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

It was something that you most likely didn't have before.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And without the knowing and the consciousness and the awareness, it's

Laura Shook-Guzman:

like there is not that ability to understand and shift or change or bring

Laura Shook-Guzman:

in compassion cuz you realize, oh, that's, it's not a personal failure.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Like this is a really big shift in the culture that I'm in.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Or I'm, you know, in a position where, Traditionally as a woman or

Laura Shook-Guzman:

as a woman of color or as you know, someone who traditionally hasn't

Laura Shook-Guzman:

had power within the system, I'm being affected in a certain way.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And, and being able to understand that context can then help you develop

Laura Shook-Guzman:

understanding and strategy and, and then possibly bring in support to be like,

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Hey, this isn't just me, that this is happening to, This is happening to a

Laura Shook-Guzman:

lot of different people in this system.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

So like, what's wrong here that we can change?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

. You know, and I think that, that's a part of our human development is to

Laura Shook-Guzman:

constantly get curious about what is it that amplifies our development?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

What is it that's impeding our development?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And realize that all of us do have different levels of privilege or different

Laura Shook-Guzman:

levels of, Agency within systems, you know, and in asking yourself, am I

Laura Shook-Guzman:

going to, because I have more power than this system, I'm a founder,

Laura Shook-Guzman:

you know, within the startup space.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

So I'm creating a company in which I have a lot of agency

Laura Shook-Guzman:

and creating a very inclusive.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Structure or creating a system that isn't about exhaustion at all cost, you know, or

Laura Shook-Guzman:

this whole like, hustle mentality that's creating a lot of mental health harm.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

You know, it's like, so where's your agency?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

As you become more and more aware of the systemic, influences, where's

Laura Shook-Guzman:

your agency to do something, to create a more positive structure?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Just something that you've dreamed would be possible, what

Laura Shook-Guzman:

would that mean to create that kind of system in, in the world?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

So there's, I guess I'm just distinguishing to the agency that happens.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

You can create a new structure or a system also by, in being

Laura Shook-Guzman:

more aware of how you do that.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And then you can also, be an advocate within an existing system.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

I mean, look at our, our educational system.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Um, you see a lot of, educational reform coming from students and

Laura Shook-Guzman:

parents themselves, so it's not.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

that.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

The people up at the very top are reforming the systems.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

It's the people that are unfortunately not served by those systems, and they start to

Laura Shook-Guzman:

push back and, you know, for, for change.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I think, you know, being aware of the bigger context allows us to make

Sonya Stattmann:

decisions that keep that in mind, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Like, you know, so often we make these kind of siloed decisions, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

, cuz we're making decisions every day, we're making tons of decisions.

Sonya Stattmann:

Our decisions impact our long-term plans, our decisions impact what we contribute.

Sonya Stattmann:

Our, you know, our decisions impact so many different things, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

So we kind of all get that and know that.

Sonya Stattmann:

And oftentimes they're, they're kind of siloed into, you know,

Sonya Stattmann:

just what's in front of us, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

So, you know, it's us, it's our day.

Sonya Stattmann:

Maybe it's our family.

Sonya Stattmann:

But I think when we are, we're holding a broader context of

Sonya Stattmann:

things, then we make more conscious decisions that hold that as well.

Sonya Stattmann:

And that's where I think that self-awareness is so key when we

Sonya Stattmann:

understand just to kind of bring this kind of back down to the ground for a

Sonya Stattmann:

second there, you know, I was listening to someone the other day, um, in Chem in

Sonya Stattmann:

Deo, who is just really, really amazing and she, she sort of mentioned, Picture

Sonya Stattmann:

and, and it just really hit home to me.

Sonya Stattmann:

She said, Okay, imagine there's a bridge and I'm paraphrasing,

Sonya Stattmann:

obviously imagine there's a bridge and there's a hole in the bridge, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

And you know, people are walking across, they're falling into the water down below.

Sonya Stattmann:

Now, as healers or therapists or self developers or leaders

Sonya Stattmann:

or trainers, you know, we're pulling people out of the water.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right.

Sonya Stattmann:

And we keep pulling people outta the water and we keep

Sonya Stattmann:

pulling people outta the water.

Sonya Stattmann:

That's that, all that individual work we're doing, we keep

Sonya Stattmann:

pulling people outta the water.

Sonya Stattmann:

But like people keep falling in , right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Because the bridge has a hole in it.

Sonya Stattmann:

So at what point do we recognize that the bridge needs to be fixed rather than

Sonya Stattmann:

just the people pulled outta the water?

Sonya Stattmann:

And it, it does have to be both, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

You know?

Sonya Stattmann:

And this and that.

Sonya Stattmann:

But I think that that was such a great image for me to really recognize like,

Sonya Stattmann:

ah, you know, the bridges, the systems, the bridge is, what we're creating in a

Sonya Stattmann:

bigger context that keeps contributing to trauma, that keeps contributing to

Sonya Stattmann:

people needing to have individual healing.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right?

Sonya Stattmann:

And, and when do we fix the systems that are the cause?

Sonya Stattmann:

And not just put all the burden on the individual to heal themselves,

Sonya Stattmann:

and that really hit home for me.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Yes.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Oh yeah.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

I love that illustration.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

I mean, that really points it out.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

It's like we could all just be individually trying to get

Laura Shook-Guzman:

back out or help each other, but then that whole continues.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And I think that, you know, this was one of the things that we

Laura Shook-Guzman:

saw during Covid that really.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Changed us you know, it changed our development.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

It changed what we thought was possible prior to covid.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

These systems were unmovable.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Like there's just so many systems that we just looked at and thought

Laura Shook-Guzman:

there's just no way there's ever gonna be changes, is gonna take

Laura Shook-Guzman:

hundreds and thousands of years.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

But what was interesting is that pattern interrupt.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Of Covid creating a response that was so immediate and so universal of like

Laura Shook-Guzman:

shutting down airports and, everyone going home and not working from the

Laura Shook-Guzman:

office and like all of these big moving systems, like all of these things where

Laura Shook-Guzman:

we had been walking around those holes and falling into holes and everyone was

Laura Shook-Guzman:

like, There's nothing we can do about it.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Nothing we can do about.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And then all of a sudden, you know, having that global pandemic

Laura Shook-Guzman:

and, having to everyone mobilize.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

It was really interesting to see what could happen.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Oh really?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

We could just stop that.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

We could just say, Yep, no traveling or no going to work, or everyone wearing a mask.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And, you know, it's just interesting.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

I think that that has opened a lot of people's eyes to the fact that change.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Can happen in a really short amount of time and at a very large scale.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And yes, that also just exposed lots of more holes too.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And, you know, um, so it wasn't a, a pattern interrupt that all of a sudden

Laura Shook-Guzman:

we, we have all the solutions now, but I think it opened a lot of people's

Laura Shook-Guzman:

eyes and their consciousness to what can happen if we have to do, really drastic.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Change.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And I think that there are a lot of advocates in the world that are

Laura Shook-Guzman:

trying to speak to, like, these are the holes, these are the holes,

Laura Shook-Guzman:

these, you know, the social justice and inequality and all these things.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Like, can we please like, not, let's not just close our eyes and keep marching.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Like, let's really understand.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

and I think to your point, This is where the bidirectional piece is really

Laura Shook-Guzman:

important because yes, the system can change and we all need to be looking

Laura Shook-Guzman:

at that, and we're more adept at seeing the holes when we're doing the

Laura Shook-Guzman:

personal work within ourselves as well.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

As we raise our awareness and our consciousness, then we can

Laura Shook-Guzman:

see the things within the system that we want to see different.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

We want to change or shift.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

So it's so important that both things are occurring.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yes.

Sonya Stattmann:

And you know, I think what's really important to acknowledge too, and

Sonya Stattmann:

this thread is that, as humans, one of the thing that's really

Sonya Stattmann:

important is right, is that we have this inherent need to belong, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

So that's, that's one kind of one piece of it.

Sonya Stattmann:

And we also, in order to be whole, in order to be healthy and thriving humans,

Sonya Stattmann:

we need to have a sense of spirituality.

Sonya Stattmann:

Now, when I say spirituality, I'm not talking about religion.

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm not even talking about woo woo spirituality.

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm, I'm talking about a sense that we are part of something bigger, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Part of something beyond ourselves.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so that can be nature, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

That can be the land, that can be spirit, that can be any number of things.

Sonya Stattmann:

But we actually require that as humans to thrive.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so, if we're not taking into account the context that we live in,

Sonya Stattmann:

then, we are missing out on something.

Sonya Stattmann:

If we always just kind of see ourselves in this small space or ourselves in

Sonya Stattmann:

this small world, we're missing out on something that's very important for our

Sonya Stattmann:

human happiness, for our human joy, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

This, this ability to belong to something bigger than ourselves and

Sonya Stattmann:

to, to notice and be aware that, that there is something bigger.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I think that that's important in this topic because.

Sonya Stattmann:

A lot of times we don't take into context the bigger picture or the

Sonya Stattmann:

bigger things that are influencing us, and that can be good or bad, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Nature is a bigger thing that influences us, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

If we were more connected to the land, and this is something, you know,

Sonya Stattmann:

again, to be more aware of, if we were more connected to the land, we would

Sonya Stattmann:

have this more grounded ability just to feel that bigger picture, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

To feel.

Sonya Stattmann:

That sort of spiritual connection.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so there's all these things that I think we have to broaden

Sonya Stattmann:

our view to recognize the context of, of us in a bigger system.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I think when we do that, we're we're able to reclaim pieces of

Sonya Stattmann:

ourselves that we've ignored.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right.

Sonya Stattmann:

So, you know, this reclaiming of self.

Sonya Stattmann:

We've spent a lot of time, I think, on this podcast talking about that individual

Sonya Stattmann:

component and you know, how to reclaim our power and how to reclaim ourselves.

Sonya Stattmann:

And that's so important in this journey.

Sonya Stattmann:

And recognizing we're part of something bigger, whether good or bad, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Or both.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right?

Sonya Stattmann:

And both, Helps us reclaim something as well.

Sonya Stattmann:

Being able to reclaim our place in things, being able to reclaim our

Sonya Stattmann:

culture, being able to reclaim.

Sonya Stattmann:

how we organize ourselves, where we fit right there.

Sonya Stattmann:

There's all these pieces that I think we have to take into account.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so, you know, this is a, an exploratory conversation, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

There's no definitive way to do this.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's just that.

Sonya Stattmann:

I think we have to talk about this more, bring this up more in our

Sonya Stattmann:

conversations that it isn't just us in a silo, it's us in the world and we

Sonya Stattmann:

have to kind of navigate and reflect on and understand our connection to it

Sonya Stattmann:

all instead of just kind of focusing on our, you know, just reclaiming

Sonya Stattmann:

ourself and our individual self.

Sonya Stattmann:

That there is a broader picture here that we need to reclaim.

Sonya Stattmann:

I know for myself in some of the work I've done, particularly in.

Sonya Stattmann:

racism and white supremacy, like starting to look at those pieces in myself, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Being white, being a white woman.

Sonya Stattmann:

Being, middle class, being American, right.

Sonya Stattmann:

You know, understanding the context in which I've lived, the context

Sonya Stattmann:

in which I contribute to, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

and understanding all of that has helped me to broaden my view, make different

Sonya Stattmann:

choices, heal on levels that I didn't even think I needed to heal on and reclaim.

Sonya Stattmann:

Things that were really important part of my whole self.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so that's what this conversation is about, is looking at things

Sonya Stattmann:

from a different perspective so that we're able to kind of broaden

Sonya Stattmann:

our view of what we're reclaiming.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Yes.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Yes.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And back to what you had said earlier, and with that awareness

Laura Shook-Guzman:

comes choice and change.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

You know, and I think that that's what I really hear you leading this whole

Laura Shook-Guzman:

conversation with is this is about.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

The awareness, the broadening the awareness from just the individual, you

Laura Shook-Guzman:

know, to all of these interdimensional components between us and the

Laura Shook-Guzman:

systems and between other people.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And you know, especially like there are now more people saying, Okay, I

Laura Shook-Guzman:

do need to get into therapy or do need to have more personal, development

Laura Shook-Guzman:

or insight or understanding, you know, and you can kind of go.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Too far in that direction of just like, thinking of yourself within this vacuum

Laura Shook-Guzman:

and yet the place making of like, where are you and how do you belong and what,

Laura Shook-Guzman:

which, which communities and how does that system, and how does, you know, how

Laura Shook-Guzman:

do all of these things impact who we are and what are those ripple effects of us

Laura Shook-Guzman:

shifting who we are individually , how does that affect across the systems?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And then how do those systems continue to, Possibly support our return and

Laura Shook-Guzman:

reclaim, or how do they impede our desire?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

? And there's, you know, what's really interesting in, the field of psychology,

Laura Shook-Guzman:

when I'm sitting with clients, like, I'm often thinking about, you

Laura Shook-Guzman:

know, what are those legacy burdens that my clients are caring from?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

You know, their family systems generational, so many generations before.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And there's really interesting stories, you know, where people will have

Laura Shook-Guzman:

memories of, um, or feelings of things that they were never explicitly told.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

but it's like the, this family emotional inheritance or

Laura Shook-Guzman:

this legacy that's passed on.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

So all of these different, Things are also, so the systems have very

Laura Shook-Guzman:

explicit messaging and explicit values, and then there's also all of these

Laura Shook-Guzman:

implicit, you know, well, I don't know.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

I've always done it that way.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Or that's how my family's always, talked about feelings or have we,

Laura Shook-Guzman:

how we've addressed conflict or how we just see the world as, as either

Laura Shook-Guzman:

welcoming or, or threatening, you know, and, and just all of these different.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

That are a part of our larger systems that, you know, we can't ignore how

Laura Shook-Guzman:

powerful those influences are on who we are developing and becoming as humans.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah.

Sonya Stattmann:

And if you look at it, I mean, so much of the individual healing and the

Sonya Stattmann:

individual work we're doing is related to how we were impacted by bigger.

Sonya Stattmann:

I've been reading this really great book, um, by Stacy Haynes

Sonya Stattmann:

called The Politics of Trauma.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Yes.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

I love

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Stacy Kanes.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Yeah, I

Laura Shook-Guzman:

haven't read that book, but I love her teachings.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Yeah.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's such a great book, and she talks a little bit in

Sonya Stattmann:

there about like the sites of trauma,

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Mm-hmm.

Sonya Stattmann:

you know, she has this great model for looking at how there's

Sonya Stattmann:

like this individual, you know, the individual site in which we experience

Sonya Stattmann:

trauma or something happens to us, but then how we're affected by all

Sonya Stattmann:

of the bigger circles, if you will.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right?

Sonya Stattmann:

So there's, you know, family institutions, you know, all, all of these things that.

Sonya Stattmann:

Are constantly impacting us, we're impacting them, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Is this bidirectional relationship.

Sonya Stattmann:

But if we don't understand that bigger context, you know, we're not able to

Sonya Stattmann:

really address the healing in a way, like we can only heal so much in the silo, or

Sonya Stattmann:

we can only heal so much on an individual level without taking into context things

Sonya Stattmann:

that are affecting us on a daily basis.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I think about this a lot, you know, of course with.

Sonya Stattmann:

People who are in traumatic situations nonstop, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

, whether that's like domestic violence or racism, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Like, you know, anyone who is, is involved in our world, , that has

Sonya Stattmann:

a different colored skin, they're constantly navigating racism.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so there's the trauma happening all the time.

Sonya Stattmann:

There's no escaping it, there's no getting rid of it.

Sonya Stattmann:

There's no.

Sonya Stattmann:

abandoning it.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so, you know, how do we navigate these systems so that we understand

Sonya Stattmann:

There is just, there's this huge context and I think, you know,

Sonya Stattmann:

definitely I know for me as a white person, the more that I am becoming

Sonya Stattmann:

aware of all of this context, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

The more I am navigating my own contribution to things, the more

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm seeing the bigger picture.

Sonya Stattmann:

The more conscious I'm able to be, the more choices I'm able

Sonya Stattmann:

to make that make a better world.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I mean, that's endless.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like there's so many more things I could do.

Sonya Stattmann:

There's so many more things we all could do, but I think,

Sonya Stattmann:

it's all about understanding.

Sonya Stattmann:

It really starts with the awareness about what's happening outside of us and how

Sonya Stattmann:

systems are influencing us and you know, what that looks like and how we can.

Sonya Stattmann:

Reclaim our own values because you know, I think as part of this conversation, I

Sonya Stattmann:

think one of the other really key points is that often we are operating from

Sonya Stattmann:

influences outside ourselves and it's very unconscious and it's often even misaligned

Sonya Stattmann:

with our values, and yet we don't know, we're operating, we're practicing.

Sonya Stattmann:

Every day in, things that are misaligned with our values, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

And so if we're not aware of that, if we're not understanding those influences,

Sonya Stattmann:

then we are, we stay unconscious about all the ways that we are doing things

Sonya Stattmann:

that are misaligned with our values.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so I think that's a really important conversation piece here too.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Yeah.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And I mean, it's.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

. Interesting.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Like you said, there's so many layers and we can continue to

Laura Shook-Guzman:

become more and more aware.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

But what it all kind of comes down to for me is how powerful that

Laura Shook-Guzman:

awareness is for self-compassion and compassion towards others.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And you know, one of the three tenets of compassion being just understanding

Laura Shook-Guzman:

things as a part of the human condit.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

like this is a part of the human condition that we exist within,

Laura Shook-Guzman:

all of these different systems in that when we're struggling, maybe

Laura Shook-Guzman:

it's not like, Oh, something's wrong with me, but oh, something's

Laura Shook-Guzman:

happening to me here in this context.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Like I.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Am a person who has less power or privilege here or I have more power

Laura Shook-Guzman:

or privilege here and you know how that affects the way we see ourselves.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Cause I think that that is, you know, what I'm always working with in the therapy

Laura Shook-Guzman:

room with clients is a moving away from.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

This just what's wrong with me?

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And this critical voice of like, I'm just a failure for some reason I can't

Laura Shook-Guzman:

do this, or I can't make inroads, or I'll never be happy or figure this out.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And it's like just being able to position that human angst within the bigger picture

Laura Shook-Guzman:

of like, Look, this is hard for everyone.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Right.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And I think that that's another thing that's kind of happened during the

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Global Pandemic is there's been more.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Understanding of, there's a lot of suffering and there's a lot of,

Laura Shook-Guzman:

discontent and there's a lot of fear and there's a lot of, you know, so how

Laura Shook-Guzman:

do we just understand how the systems are perpetuating that, or, you know,

Laura Shook-Guzman:

what I can do on an individual level to feel like I've got a sense of power

Laura Shook-Guzman:

reclaiming my power, or being able to support others who have less power.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

So, I mean, like you said, this is a really big conversation, but I like

Laura Shook-Guzman:

bringing it back to the illustration you shared of just, you know,

Laura Shook-Guzman:

are we gonna keep walking across.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Falling in the holes and picking each other up, or do at some point

Laura Shook-Guzman:

we pull back and say, Oh, like there's a lot of holes in the system.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

There's a lot of ways in which people are being harmed.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And I wonder what we could do to, to point these out to, to repair, to, to just bring

Laura Shook-Guzman:

conscious awareness to the fact that you, you're not, somehow doing something wrong.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

You just You had to walk across that hole.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I, and I think, you know, like I have like so many threads I wanna

Sonya Stattmann:

pull, so it's always like hard to be like, Okay, which one do I pull for?

Sonya Stattmann:

But you know, I think, I know for myself, I feel like I'm a, a fairly

Sonya Stattmann:

resilient, you know, I definitely define as a survivor, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

I've been through a lot in my life and I feel like, you

Sonya Stattmann:

know, I have done it on my own.

Sonya Stattmann:

I have survived on my own, and I think for a lot of high, high achievers and

Sonya Stattmann:

also survivors, We can sort of identify with this self development or this

Sonya Stattmann:

transformation as all personal, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

As all.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like, I can do it, I'm gonna do it on my own.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like we can actually disconnect from the relational component, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

But you know, the more I learn about myself, the more I learn

Sonya Stattmann:

about our humanity, our psychology, our neuroscience, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

All of these things, the more I recognize.

Sonya Stattmann:

we as humans are relational.

Sonya Stattmann:

Everything is relational.

Sonya Stattmann:

We don't become who we are because of just ourselves, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

We become who we are because of our relationships, whether that's to the

Sonya Stattmann:

world, to society, to our workplace, to our friends, to our family.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so it's really relational.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I think in the self development world, a lot of us

Sonya Stattmann:

have kind of made it all personal.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like we can just empower ourselves.

Sonya Stattmann:

We can just, go off and do what we need to do to be empowered and wonderful.

Sonya Stattmann:

And, that's true.

Sonya Stattmann:

And like, , everything is relational and we can't ignore the impact that

Sonya Stattmann:

our relationships have had to us or the impact that we have to the world, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

So there's this like huge relational component that I feel

Sonya Stattmann:

like, you know, hasn't been.

Sonya Stattmann:

Brought up are talked about enough in these kind of transformational

Sonya Stattmann:

self development circles, and I think it's a really important

Sonya Stattmann:

topic that we need to be having.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's also why a lot of self development can ignore or bypass the social

Sonya Stattmann:

injustices that are happening.

Sonya Stattmann:

Because it's all about the individual.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's, they're not taking into context the bigger picture of

Sonya Stattmann:

what we're all contributing to.

Sonya Stattmann:

And really a lot of self-development is for the privileged, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

It's for the privilege.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's often, co-opting, other cultures and other things that

Sonya Stattmann:

are happening in the world.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so there, this is like a, now that's like really like a whole

Sonya Stattmann:

conversation in and of itself.

Sonya Stattmann:

But the other kind of thread I wanted to pull really briefly

Sonya Stattmann:

is when you talked about.

Sonya Stattmann:

the more context and awareness we have of the systems, the more empathy we can have.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I think that is a really important piece because we do have

Sonya Stattmann:

more self-compassion on ourselves when we recognize we've been impacted

Sonya Stattmann:

by systems beyond our control.

Sonya Stattmann:

And we do have more empathy with others when we realize

Sonya Stattmann:

they've been impacted by systems.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I think about this a lot, um, sometimes with my husband.

Sonya Stattmann:

it's easy as like, you know, I'm a very passionate, you know, woman who,

Sonya Stattmann:

you know, wants gender equality is always fought for gender equality.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like there's a, there's a lot of stuff.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so I can easily, you know, kind of look at white entitled men, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

kind of have this perspective that, oh, well they have all the

Sonya Stattmann:

privilege, they need to, you know, kind of take it down a peg or two.

Sonya Stattmann:

They need to.

Sonya Stattmann:

More humility.

Sonya Stattmann:

And then as I, recognize that they are also very, very impacted and influenced

Sonya Stattmann:

by the system that often who they become, and this entitled or this privilege is

Sonya Stattmann:

what has been given to them from this.

Sonya Stattmann:

System.

Sonya Stattmann:

it doesn't excuse the personal responsibility we have in anything,

Sonya Stattmann:

but it does allow me to have more empathy, you know, for my husband or

Sonya Stattmann:

for, you know, white men, that they are also influenced and involved in

Sonya Stattmann:

a system that continues to perpetuate all of those attitudes and feelings

Sonya Stattmann:

and, you know, roles and identities.

Sonya Stattmann:

and it allows me to have so much more compassion for everyone.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I think, again, it's an intersection.

Sonya Stattmann:

We're talking about both individual transformation and a bigger picture

Sonya Stattmann:

society, social justice, organizational transformation, and we're talking

Sonya Stattmann:

about personal responsibility.

Sonya Stattmann:

And also understanding that there is influences that are unconscious influences

Sonya Stattmann:

that are, powerful for every person.

Sonya Stattmann:

So, it's this juxtaposition.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's this, it's this connection.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's this wholeness that I feel like we have to broaden our perspective

Sonya Stattmann:

to so that it's not either or.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Yes, it is the, And , as you talked about

Laura Shook-Guzman:

earlier, it is the interaction, the interdependency, the relational

Laura Shook-Guzman:

component of what it means to be human.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And that yes, we are not sitting over here in a silo, just an individual person.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Not being impacted by all of the relationships and all of the messages.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And and some of these things we've internalized, you know, is like,

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Oh, I'm a part of that system and, and so that makes me good.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Or I'm not a part of that system, so that makes me bad.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

You know, there's all these ways which we've internalized, um,

Laura Shook-Guzman:

messages about our value, and yet, Those things can be, explored and

Laura Shook-Guzman:

those things can be continued.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Some of those relational components we wanna have, The positive that comes with

Laura Shook-Guzman:

those systems, but we also, we have to be aware of, of all the different messages.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And if you're feeling stuck in your individual reclaiming, then that might

Laura Shook-Guzman:

be a time to be like, What are the.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

Systemic influences on me right now that might not be supporting the

Laura Shook-Guzman:

direction that I wanna grow, you know, go into, or that I'm trying to grow.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

So just becoming aware.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

And then how do you find more supportive systems that are, going

Laura Shook-Guzman:

to reflect back your values or support you going in that direction,

Sonya Stattmann:

And I think that's ultimately the thing, right, is

Sonya Stattmann:

that as we become more aware, we wanna be making choices that are

Sonya Stattmann:

more in alignment with our values.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I know for myself, particularly in some of the social justice work that

Sonya Stattmann:

I've been doing, or in some of the reflection on my own racism, One of the

Sonya Stattmann:

things that I've recognized is that, I make a lot of unconscious decisions,

Sonya Stattmann:

right, that impact other people.

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And I make a lot of unconscious decisions that don't support people, but

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supporting people in all people, right?

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Is very aligned with my values, and yet I'm operating in these bigger systems

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with very indoctrinated beliefs or ideas or thoughts or behaviors that

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are, have influenced me my whole life.

Sonya Stattmann:

, and I'm not conscious of them.

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And so the more conscious I am of things, and this is an endless process, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

I don't ever think I'll be fully conscious of it all.

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But the more conscious I am, the more ability I am to make decisions that

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align with my values that have more impact and support for all people.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so I think that's the piece.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's this awareness.

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That we are part of something bigger that reclaiming ourselves

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cannot just be about reclaiming our individual self, but is reclaiming

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ourself in the context of things.

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And when we can do that, there's even more growth, there's even more

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transformation, and we open up a relational, bidirectional, piece

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of our lives that is actually very, very important in this work.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

A hundred percent agree.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

I'm grateful for this conversation cuz hopefully it's just, you know,

Laura Shook-Guzman:

listeners are thinking about all of the different intersections between

Laura Shook-Guzman:

them themselves individually, and the systems that they, exist within.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah, and I mean, some of the questions that, you know, I do

Sonya Stattmann:

this individual work cuz you know, we have the power to do individual work, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

So, in my individual work, some of the self-awareness and questions

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I ask myself is how am am I influenced by these bigger processes?

Sonya Stattmann:

Like, how am I influenced by being, the white privilege?

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System.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right?

Sonya Stattmann:

You know, like, how have I been influenced in that way?

Sonya Stattmann:

Um, how have I been influenced by being American, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

How have I been influenced by being in, in like a self development circles, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

I've been in a lot of self development circles.

Sonya Stattmann:

How has that influenced me?

Sonya Stattmann:

How has that impacted me?

Sonya Stattmann:

How have I been, been being in business circles, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

So that's some of the work I've done as well.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like, you know, having a business for 22 years, what does it feel like

Sonya Stattmann:

to have been in business circles?

Sonya Stattmann:

What, how.

Sonya Stattmann:

Influence the way they think, the way that I operate, the way that I work.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so we can start to ask these questions of like, how have these

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systems influenced me so that we start to recognize more of that

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context and more of that relationship.

Laura Shook-Guzman:

I

Sonya Stattmann:

So, Yay.

Sonya Stattmann:

Well, thank you all for joining us today.

Sonya Stattmann:

I hope this was just a conversation that planted some seeds, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Maybe brought a different perspective, but I think it's a very important conversation

Sonya Stattmann:

we need to be having a lot more of.

Sonya Stattmann:

So thank you for joining us and we will see you next week.

Sonya Stattmann:

I hope you enjoyed this week's episode of reclaiming ourselves, looking

Sonya Stattmann:

for a speaker for your organization, or wanna dive deeper into the

Sonya Stattmann:

process of reclaiming yourself.

Sonya Stattmann:

I would love an opportunity to work with you.

Sonya Stattmann:

You can find more about my services, read articles and listen to all of my

Sonya Stattmann:

podcast episodes@sonyastattmann.com Have an amazing day.

Sonya Stattmann:

And thanks for listening.

Listen to Reclaiming Ourselves


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About Sonya Stattmann

Sonya has spent the last 23 years working with thousands of individuals, leaders & organizations. She is an expert in emotional intelligence & personal development. She currently offers corporate speaking & training programs, public podcasts & personal development podcast courses for anyone looking for support in their personal growth. She has a TEDx talk called Moving Beyond #Empowerment. She currently lives in Mexico with her family & spends a lot of time traveling around the world.