Self-Abandonment | How to Turn Back to Ourselves With Compassion

Do you ever feel like you’ve given up on yourself? Do you struggle with trusting yourself? How do you start to rebuild the self-love and support you’ve let go of? 

This week Belinda & Sonya are tackling the topic of self-abandonment: what it is and how to turn back towards ourselves with more self-compassion. 

They share their own self-abandonment experiences, how to know when your brain is pushing you in a direction that your body doesn’t like, and strategies and practices to help you find your way back home. 

Join us as we discuss

  • 03:52 The distinctions between surrender and abandonment.
  • 12:12 Developing compassion for your inner critic.
  • 16:00 How much of our stress response can be managed but not controlled.
  • 28:28 How focusing on the present moment can ground us in our bodies and keep us in touch with self.

Resources mentioned in the show: (If appropriate)

Learn more about Sonya & Belinda

—> Sonya Stattmann is the host & creator of Reclaiming Ourselves™. She is a TEDx & corporate speaker and has been working with leaders around personal development for the last 22 years. She teaches workshops & offers small group programs around emotional intelligence, transformational & embodied leadership, and energy management. You can find more about her here:

Website: https://www.sonyastattmann.com/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonyastattmann/

—> Belinda Haan, co-host of Reclaiming Ourselves, is a gifted Masters-level certified professional coach who has worked with leaders and executives in various Fortune 500 corporations worldwide. She is a mindfulness and compassion teacher and facilitates group and individual therapeutic interventions that promote inner connection and belonging. She is personally passionate about bridging the gap between science and spirit, using an empathic, grounded approach that weaves contemplative practice and accessible personal development with her clients. You can find more about her here:

Website: www.belindahaan.com

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/belinda-haan-b1b02815/

What you can do next:

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Thank you for being you. We are so honored to have you as a listener!

Transcript
Sonya Stattmann:

We All have triggers.

Sonya Stattmann:

We all have ways that we use these survival skills and they're good and

Sonya Stattmann:

they're necessary and they're wonderful and they can no longer serve us, in

Sonya Stattmann:

which case we can love on them and understand them and support them in

Sonya Stattmann:

a way that allows us to, to do the opposite of self abandonment, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

To, to re support ourselves, to re back ourselves.

Sonya Stattmann:

Um, and I think that's the journey of reclaiming ourselves in so many Ways.

Belinda Haan:

Yes, absolutely.

Belinda Haan:

And you know, you're so right.

Belinda Haan:

let's not use our awareness of the ways that we've abandoned ourselves as a

Belinda Haan:

way to criticize ourselves even more.

Belinda Haan:

Because, you know, often we don't realize until afterwards.

Belinda Haan:

And so then in that moment, can we.

Belinda Haan:

Go with some humor, like, Isn't that, isn't that interesting?

Sonya Stattmann:

If you know there is something deep inside of you

Sonya Stattmann:

that is yearning to be seen, to be known, and to have expression.

Sonya Stattmann:

If there's something you need to reclaim and remember: maybe it's your

Sonya Stattmann:

power or your purpose, your gifts.

Sonya Stattmann:

This is the podcast for you.

Sonya Stattmann:

Welcome to Reclaiming Ourselves.

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm your host, Sonya Stattmann and I'm honored to have three amazing

Sonya Stattmann:

co-hosts, Laura Shook-Guzman, Belinda Haan, and Emily Soccorsy, here with

Sonya Stattmann:

me on this journey to self discovery.

Sonya Stattmann:

Every week we're gonna help you unravel and remember what it means to reclaim

Sonya Stattmann:

yourself, to own who you are, to recognize your innate worth and greatness.

Sonya Stattmann:

Now this podcast is a deep dive into self-development,

Sonya Stattmann:

healing, and empowerment.

Sonya Stattmann:

So hold on.

Sonya Stattmann:

Here we go.

Sonya Stattmann:

Hi, and welcome back to Reclaiming Ourselves.

Sonya Stattmann:

I am so excited because I have Belinda Hahn in the studio with me today, and

Sonya Stattmann:

we are gonna be unpacking a topic that is something I've explored a lot over.

Sonya Stattmann:

I'd say the last, you know, 10 years in particular.

Sonya Stattmann:

And it's really this idea of self abandonment, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Like I think when we're looking at reclaiming ourselves, some of

Sonya Stattmann:

what we're reclaiming is the ways we've abandoned ourselves, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Abandoned our purpose, or abandoned our truth, or abandoned our wisdom.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so that's what we're gonna kind of explore today and

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm very excited to do that.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so, Belinda, welcome and tell us a little bit about.

Sonya Stattmann:

How can we start diving into this topic?

Belinda Haan:

yes, it's great to be here.

Belinda Haan:

And I was saying before we pressed record that in the lead up to this episode,

Belinda Haan:

I've been watching all the ways that I abandon myself so that I'm embodied in

Belinda Haan:

the, the felt sense of what that's like.

Belinda Haan:

But I thought it might just be worthwhile just exploring a definition around that.

Belinda Haan:

And, the dictionary definition of abandonment.

Belinda Haan:

So there's nothing there about self abandonment, but

Belinda Haan:

abandonment is to see support.

Belinda Haan:

To give up or relinquish control of to surrender or to give oneself over.

Belinda Haan:

So if you look at that from a self abandonment perspective, it's to see

Belinda Haan:

support of ourselves to give up or relinquish control of ourselves to

Belinda Haan:

surrender or to give oneself over.

Sonya Stattmann:

like some of that's really interesting, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Like I can really.

Sonya Stattmann:

See how self abandonment is like to see support of ourselves.

Sonya Stattmann:

But I also think, like in a lot of self development circles, right, we talk about

Sonya Stattmann:

surrendering as a beautiful thing, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

And surrendering and the way they talk about is very different than I

Sonya Stattmann:

think, the good ways to surrender.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right?

Sonya Stattmann:

So, maybe we can kind of just pull that thread, like what's the difference

Sonya Stattmann:

between surrendering and abandoning self?

Belinda Haan:

Yes.

Belinda Haan:

That's a great question because I think, I think that there's a balance

Belinda Haan:

between working out when to put effort in and when to surrender . So it's

Belinda Haan:

that sort of, that constant, um, back and forth about that, which I guess is

Belinda Haan:

true for, for ourselves as well, and.

Belinda Haan:

To me, the difference between surrender and abandonment.

Belinda Haan:

Abandonment to me is really about.

Belinda Haan:

not sort of having that quality relationship with ourselves.

Belinda Haan:

To me, it's a reflection on what is our relationship with ourselves, and

Belinda Haan:

that foundation needs to be there before we're even thinking about what

Belinda Haan:

to surrender or what not to surrender.

Belinda Haan:

If, if our relationship with ourselves is not there, then how do we know

Belinda Haan:

what to let go of and what not?

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah, I think that's a really good distinction.

Sonya Stattmann:

And, I, I also feel like self, self abandonment at least, and

Sonya Stattmann:

the ways that I've explored it and the ways that I've, you know, kind

Sonya Stattmann:

of, unpacked it for my own life.

Sonya Stattmann:

There are really ways in which I dishonored my true self, right.

Belinda Haan:

Yes.

Sonya Stattmann:

maybe I surrendered, but I surrendered because I felt like

Sonya Stattmann:

I had no choice or I surrendered to something that was misaligned with

Sonya Stattmann:

me, which is very different than the times I've surrendered for peace, or

Sonya Stattmann:

I've surrendered as a conscious choice.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I think, you know, for me, that abandonment is really when

Sonya Stattmann:

I've, surrendered something I didn't want to or shouldn't have.

Belinda Haan:

Yes, yes.

Belinda Haan:

Absolutely.

Belinda Haan:

Absolutely.

Belinda Haan:

And I think it's, you know, for me anyway, It's even just building awareness

Belinda Haan:

of what, in what ways we do this.

Belinda Haan:

Because sometimes, I mean, I really feel like it was outside of my

Belinda Haan:

conscious awareness that I was even abandoning myself until I created

Belinda Haan:

a bit more space and was practicing mindfulness and sort of seeing the

Belinda Haan:

patterns and all of that sort of thing.

Belinda Haan:

So I think it's not always clear the moments that we do do that, and I think.

Belinda Haan:

Self abandonment, for me at least, it, it can be chronic in terms of just the,

Belinda Haan:

the habitual way that we, we act is leaving ourselves believing, you know,

Belinda Haan:

other people matter more than our, ourselves never fulfilling our needs.

Belinda Haan:

All of that.

Belinda Haan:

So that can just be a chronic state of being that, you know,

Belinda Haan:

often we're not aware of.

Belinda Haan:

But then there can be acute moments of self abandonment when we've got something,

Belinda Haan:

you know, something's triggered us or activated us, and then that's set.

Belinda Haan:

you know, we go down the rabbit holes of different other defensive strategies

Belinda Haan:

and leave ourselves in that moment.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so what does it feel like, You know, because a lot of people

Sonya Stattmann:

probably haven't ever looked at it from this point of view, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Maybe they kind of think, Oh, I dishonored myself, or, you know, maybe

Sonya Stattmann:

I left myself outta the equation, or, you know, I put others above me.

Sonya Stattmann:

but self abandonment, gosh, it just has this like, particular feel.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so, How do we recognize when we're doing that?

Sonya Stattmann:

What does that look like?

Sonya Stattmann:

What does that feel like?

Sonya Stattmann:

And I'm sure it's different for everybody, but in your experience,

Sonya Stattmann:

what does that look like?

Sonya Stattmann:

And then maybe I'll share in my experience as

Sonya Stattmann:

well.

Belinda Haan:

I think that the one way that is really easy for me to

Belinda Haan:

tell whether I'm abandoning myself is true my behavior, so, People pleasing

Belinda Haan:

, perfectionism, saying yes, when I mean no.

Belinda Haan:

And you know, even I'm sort of reflecting on the ways that I say yes when I mean

Belinda Haan:

yes, but I have no capacity to say yes.

Belinda Haan:

as well.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah, that's a really good one.

Belinda Haan:

and comparing myself to others and.

Belinda Haan:

You know, going into my head actually, that's a really strong strategy

Belinda Haan:

that I've got, um, just sort of analyzing and ruminating and trying

Belinda Haan:

to fix and all of that sort of thing.

Belinda Haan:

And I think it all stems from my practice from a self abandonment

Belinda Haan:

perspective is really about meeting the moment as it is in whatever

Belinda Haan:

shape that takes, and particularly in relation to my emotional world and.

Belinda Haan:

Not abandoning myself when emotions arise has been my continual practice

Belinda Haan:

because when difficult emotions arise, that is my core moment of self

Belinda Haan:

abandonment because it feels too much.

Belinda Haan:

um, I think because.

Belinda Haan:

I, you know, wasn't necessarily held in those difficult emotions

Belinda Haan:

at different times that it makes me have a strong belief that, you

Belinda Haan:

know, this is evidence that there's something wrong with me or whatever.

Belinda Haan:

So it's in that moment of actual difficult emotions that

Belinda Haan:

I'm having to really look at.

Belinda Haan:

What, how I'm actually relating to myself in that moment because that

Belinda Haan:

emotion is coming up for me to meet it as a messenger, and whenever I turn away

Belinda Haan:

from that, because you know, and then get into my defensive strategies like

Belinda Haan:

people pleasing, overworking, all of those kind of things, it's really just to

Belinda Haan:

avoid that core emotion that's arising.

Belinda Haan:

That feels too much.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah.

Sonya Stattmann:

That's really interesting.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like I'm starting to kind of think, What are all the ways, like, you

Sonya Stattmann:

know, sometimes I don't notice self abandonment patterns or big times.

Sonya Stattmann:

I, I self, you know, abandon myself until I look back over my life.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right.

Sonya Stattmann:

But in the moment, What can I feel?

Sonya Stattmann:

Right?

Sonya Stattmann:

What can I notice?

Sonya Stattmann:

And I do think when I'm in my head, when I'm not feeling, when I'm not

Sonya Stattmann:

trusting my gut, when I'm not asking myself what do I wanna do, what do I

Sonya Stattmann:

feel like sometimes there's like those automatic decisions we try to make or.

Sonya Stattmann:

I know for myself, I'm often trying to force myself to do tasks to get

Sonya Stattmann:

things done right, and, in that I'm not checking in with myself to see,

Sonya Stattmann:

but what do I feel in this moment?

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm trying to push through whatever I feel in order to just

Sonya Stattmann:

like get this agenda done, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

And I feel like those are ways I abandon myself.

Sonya Stattmann:

All the time, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Instead of checking in with myself like, Do I feel like I need a rest?

Sonya Stattmann:

Do I feel like I need to take a walk?

Sonya Stattmann:

Do I feel like I need to do something in self-care?

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm just pushing myself to just meet some agenda that I have

Sonya Stattmann:

that's come from my head and.

Sonya Stattmann:

I think that's like a daily self abandonment.

Sonya Stattmann:

And then of course there's huge self abandonments where I put other people

Sonya Stattmann:

over myself or I didn't listen to red flags or things that happened in my life.

Sonya Stattmann:

I didn't really listen to my gut and I, you know, went ahead and did something

Sonya Stattmann:

major that had years of consequences.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right.

Sonya Stattmann:

So, You know, I think there's these big moments and then there's

Sonya Stattmann:

these like micro daily moments and,

Belinda Haan:

Yes.

Sonya Stattmann:

those are good to pay attention to.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I do feel like for me, I'm, I'm more disconnected to my body.

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm more in my head.

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm not asking myself what I need or what I want.

Belinda Haan:

Yes.

Belinda Haan:

And it really manifests for me as self-criticism as well, you know,

Belinda Haan:

that just persistent, voice that is judging me res, you know, resisting

Belinda Haan:

my experience, making meaning, trying to fix things, all of that, um, really

Belinda Haan:

strong and loud voice of self-criticism that's been with me and really, I mean

Belinda Haan:

with me my whole life, but only in conscious awareness in terms of the ways.

Belinda Haan:

Supports that self abandonment over the last few years as I've become

Belinda Haan:

more sort of mindful of what's, what's happening internally and that that sort

Belinda Haan:

of persistent and hypervigilant judging.

Belinda Haan:

Of my behavior, my inner world, my thoughts, the way

Belinda Haan:

that I'm with other people.

Belinda Haan:

and the kids like that.

Belinda Haan:

I mean, motherhood's been like self criticism's just gone, um,

Belinda Haan:

flourished in that container.

Belinda Haan:

And that is like having a persistent judge just on everything.

Belinda Haan:

And, and I sort.

Belinda Haan:

Talk about self criticism, like having your, having poo colored glasses on

Belinda Haan:

instead of rose colored glasses on , where the whole, where everything that you see

Belinda Haan:

is just all the ways that you are failing.

Belinda Haan:

and that doesn't, that's not always, um, the case, but I am becoming

Belinda Haan:

more aware that that is a indicator.

Belinda Haan:

When self criticism is high, it's, it's a messenger that it's

Belinda Haan:

time to connect with myself.

Belinda Haan:

what I have done before with self-criticism is like, I've just gotta

Belinda Haan:

get rid of it because self-criticism is what pushes me into these behaviors that

Belinda Haan:

I'm not happy with, like overworking.

Belinda Haan:

People pleasing perfectionism and all that.

Belinda Haan:

It sort of, that is, has been my avoidance of that self-criticism and all of the

Belinda Haan:

work that I've done to get rid of the self, the inner critic like it's been,

Belinda Haan:

Yeah, there's been a great mission for me to get rid of that, that inner critic,

Belinda Haan:

but now I'm relating to that differently because I sort of see it now as like an.

Belinda Haan:

Protector innocent strategy that has kept me safe when I was younger, but it's

Belinda Haan:

not really relevant to my life anymore.

Belinda Haan:

So I can notice the self-criticism and sort of realize that that's a little

Belinda Haan:

messenger for me to connect in with my true self and, and sort of it's a call

Belinda Haan:

back home, if you like, rather than something that I need to get rid of.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah, I mean that's such an important thing in general, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Because when we criticize a self, I mean, that is abandoning self, right?

Belinda Haan:

Mm-hmm.

Sonya Stattmann:

you know,

Sonya Stattmann:

where we're

Sonya Stattmann:

abandoning ourselves.

Sonya Stattmann:

We're not supporting ourselves, we're not backing ourselves.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right.

Sonya Stattmann:

We're beating ourselves back in in a way, or we're, you know, beating

Sonya Stattmann:

ourselves down instead of backing us.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I love what you said because I think, as we explore, you know,

Sonya Stattmann:

why do we abandon ourselves?

Sonya Stattmann:

I think mostly because we're trying to survive, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

They're all survival strategies.

Sonya Stattmann:

So, you know, it's not condemning ourselves.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's not being like, Ugh, I abandoned myself again.

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm so bad.

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm so wrong.

Sonya Stattmann:

So, you know, that's just more of that abandonment, but instead

Sonya Stattmann:

really loving ourselves and, and supporting ourselves and looking.

Sonya Stattmann:

what's happened that we felt we needed to, ignore our needs or, what survival

Sonya Stattmann:

mechanism have we used that's allowed us to, to live, but like you said, is

Sonya Stattmann:

no longer serving us or is no longer relevant to our current state of being.

Sonya Stattmann:

you know, the more I learn about.

Sonya Stattmann:

These survival responses more.

Sonya Stattmann:

I learn about the nervous system.

Sonya Stattmann:

You know, we all have it, and it's evolutionary biology.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's not based on how good or bad we are.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's not based on how self developed and evolved we are.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like we all have this evolutionary biology inside of us.

Sonya Stattmann:

We All have triggers.

Sonya Stattmann:

We all have ways that we use these survival skills and they're good and

Sonya Stattmann:

they're necessary and they're wonderful and they can no longer serve us, in

Sonya Stattmann:

which case we can love on them and understand them and support them in

Sonya Stattmann:

a way that allows us to, to do the opposite of self abandonment, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

To, to re support ourselves, to re back ourselves.

Sonya Stattmann:

Um, and I think that's the journey of reclaiming ourselves in so many Ways.

Belinda Haan:

Yes, absolutely.

Belinda Haan:

And you know, you're so right.

Belinda Haan:

let's not use our awareness of the ways that we've abandoned ourselves as a

Belinda Haan:

way to criticize ourselves even more.

Belinda Haan:

Because, you know, often we don't realize until afterwards.

Belinda Haan:

And so then in that moment, can we.

Belinda Haan:

Go with some humor, like, Isn't that, isn't that interesting?

Belinda Haan:

You know, that we've done that.

Belinda Haan:

And you know, like you said, our nervous system really should be absolutely

Belinda Haan:

honored in this, in this regard because our responses are automatic

Belinda Haan:

and you know, they can feel like.

Belinda Haan:

an extreme threat if we, you know, if we've triggered a memory from

Belinda Haan:

early childhood or, it feels in that moment, like that same threat, even

Belinda Haan:

though we can look around and say, you know, everything is actually fine.

Belinda Haan:

So honoring that.

Belinda Haan:

our automatic response is not something we can control.

Belinda Haan:

We can't just say, I'm just gonna be in the vental, vagal

Belinda Haan:

response and just be all aligned.

Belinda Haan:

Like, it just doesn't work like that.

Sonya Stattmann:

right.

Sonya Stattmann:

That's right.

Belinda Haan:

when the threat comes, like that's a call to resource ourselves

Belinda Haan:

and instead of judging ourselves, which trust me, I've done that.

Belinda Haan:

You know, why am I so activated and why is this still happening?

Belinda Haan:

You know, that can happen, um, as well.

Belinda Haan:

Why is this still a problem or still an issue that I'm working with?

Belinda Haan:

But it's actually just a call to resource ourselves.

Belinda Haan:

So, you know, even.

Belinda Haan:

What are the five things that I can see here?

Belinda Haan:

Smell like using our senses, feeling our feet against the floor.

Belinda Haan:

You know, even just like I'm really trying to use compassionate touch, you

Belinda Haan:

know, when I'm feeling like triggered by something I'm just sort of doing, you

Belinda Haan:

know, just doing some gentle touch and, you know, putting your hands on your

Belinda Haan:

heart and saying, This is really hard.

Belinda Haan:

And, you know, we can connect with the fact.

Belinda Haan:

Everyone experiences this.

Belinda Haan:

It's not just us.

Belinda Haan:

And I think that I was under the illusion that I had the strongest

Belinda Haan:

inner critic and no one else has, has an inner critic like me.

Belinda Haan:

And that's just not true.

Belinda Haan:

And, and you realize that actually we are all experiencing our own difficulties,

Belinda Haan:

our own ways that we abandon ourselves.

Belinda Haan:

Like it is just part.

Belinda Haan:

Being human.

Sonya Stattmann:

It is.

Belinda Haan:

you know, Paul Gilbert talks about that.

Belinda Haan:

You know, our brain is just amazing for so many things, but in a way there's

Belinda Haan:

so many design flaws, , because we are just naturally looking out for threat.

Belinda Haan:

And so that is what, supports us to bend ourselves.

Belinda Haan:

And, you know, there's, there's a lot of other factors outside the

Belinda Haan:

nervous system that can really, um, take us away from ourselves.

Belinda Haan:

Like if we're.

Belinda Haan:

If we're parents with young children, we're, we're caring so much and so much

Belinda Haan:

of our attention goes outwards, Sleep deprivation, you know, family stress.

Belinda Haan:

There's just, there's a million, reasons why we can event ourselves and I guess

Belinda Haan:

there is no amount of inner work.

Belinda Haan:

That will avoid that happening , and there's no solution to this in terms of

Belinda Haan:

like there's no neat bow that you can put around yourself to say, forevermore, I've

Belinda Haan:

got self intimacy and self-compassion, and I'm just gonna always be present with

Belinda Haan:

allowing everything that happens that's just not a realistic goal, but we can just

Belinda Haan:

have a reflection, an ongoing reflection.

Belinda Haan:

What is my relationship like with myself in this moment?

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah.

Belinda Haan:

know, what is it that I'm experiencing in my body?

Belinda Haan:

Like really listening to the body because the mind is so often in the

Belinda Haan:

past, the body is in the present.

Belinda Haan:

You know, the mind can be in the future as well, but the body is in the

Belinda Haan:

present moment can be such an anchor.

Belinda Haan:

For us.

Belinda Haan:

But if, like me, you've had a real strong pattern about being in your head and

Belinda Haan:

you know, valuing that and intelligence and all that sort of thing, which is

Belinda Haan:

all wonderful, but in our times of suffering, the body is really our anchor

Belinda Haan:

and our source of wisdom, and it's where we can reconnect with ourselves.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah, I think it's so important there was such a big

Sonya Stattmann:

aha when I started to recognize that in a lot of ways, I think

Sonya Stattmann:

self development program, self development philosophies, like the self

Sonya Stattmann:

development world has a lot of things.

Sonya Stattmann:

Not quite right.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right.

Sonya Stattmann:

Because I think a lot, lot of ideas that we have, I know I grew up, I

Sonya Stattmann:

mean, I've been in self development circles since I was quite young.

Sonya Stattmann:

. And so often I was taught that, you know, if you change your beliefs,

Sonya Stattmann:

you can change your responses.

Sonya Stattmann:

If you just think differently, think positively, you know, it's like

Sonya Stattmann:

we, we are still coming through all this kind of brain activity.

Sonya Stattmann:

And when I understood that like my body is having survival responses

Sonya Stattmann:

that are not in my control.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right.

Sonya Stattmann:

So the autonomic nervous system is responding for my

Sonya Stattmann:

survival in my best interest.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like for me, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

It is not abandoning me.

Sonya Stattmann:

It is serving me.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right?

Sonya Stattmann:

When I kind of started to realize this, I realized, wow.

Sonya Stattmann:

You know, for so many years I shamed myself for not being able to change

Sonya Stattmann:

my beliefs fast enough for not being able to like, think my way out of a,

Sonya Stattmann:

a pattern that was happening or out of a, a way I was sabotaging myself.

Sonya Stattmann:

And there was such a huge aha when I realized, you know, that all

Sonya Stattmann:

the things you just said are true.

Sonya Stattmann:

That we have this evolutionary biology that is automatic, that we respond

Sonya Stattmann:

in the best interests of ourselves, and that per like our nervous system.

Sonya Stattmann:

Is responding to perception, not reality, but to perception.

Sonya Stattmann:

So whatever we perceive as a threat is a threat.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so when I could, when I could see all of that, when I could understand all that

Sonya Stattmann:

in many ways, I could stop judging myself.

Sonya Stattmann:

I could have more compassion and empathy for myself.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I think that helped me minimize self abandonment because I feel

Sonya Stattmann:

like judgment and pressure, and.

Sonya Stattmann:

The ways we lack compassion with ourselves, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

All that like perpetuates the self abandonment.

Sonya Stattmann:

So, you know, we abandon ourselves for whatever reason to survive, and

Sonya Stattmann:

then we continuously beat ourselves up over and over and over again and, you

Sonya Stattmann:

know, we just perpetuate that system.

Sonya Stattmann:

But the more I could recognize that, like, Oh, I'm human and there is no.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like condition or state that I'm gonna permanently end up in.

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm not gonna be enlightened all of a sudden and not have reactions, and not

Sonya Stattmann:

have responses and not feel threats.

Sonya Stattmann:

Uh, when I could really understand that, I feel like it changed the relationship

Sonya Stattmann:

to myself and, and I'm nowhere near not self abandoning myself, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Like that just continues to be a thing, but.

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm more aware and I can recover from that self abandonment more easily.

Belinda Haan:

Mm.

Belinda Haan:

Yes.

Belinda Haan:

That's beautiful.

Belinda Haan:

And you know, I really resonate so deeply with that.

Belinda Haan:

I, you know, I've got a coaching psychology background, so you've just

Belinda Haan:

gotta set a goal, you know, here's all the, all the things that you need to do.

Belinda Haan:

And, and, you know, that was working in some ways, but not working in those

Belinda Haan:

really kind of sticky kind of things that, that, um, that was present.

Belinda Haan:

And, you know, with, with the nervous system.

Belinda Haan:

honoring the intelligence and turning towards listening to that intelligence.

Belinda Haan:

And that's not necessarily listening in terms of, Okay, well

Belinda Haan:

I'm gonna hide because I'm scared.

Belinda Haan:

It's really just going, okay, I've got a bit of activation happening within me.

Belinda Haan:

You know, how can I sort of resource myself in this moment rather than,

Belinda Haan:

you know what, I have done many, many, and continue to do many times.

Belinda Haan:

Morning having a preference for things to be different.

Belinda Haan:

You know, I would really love it if I was in the Vental vagal response

Belinda Haan:

because then I'm gonna be clear and articulate and everything like that.

Belinda Haan:

But the reality is, you know, I'm doing a podcast.

Belinda Haan:

There's a lot of activation happening in my nervous system right now.

Belinda Haan:

And, and that's natural.

Belinda Haan:

Of course.

Belinda Haan:

That's natural.

Belinda Haan:

And what can I do?

Belinda Haan:

Can I feel my feet against the floor?

Belinda Haan:

And you.

Belinda Haan:

I think I've talked before about being highly sensitive, you know, highly

Belinda Haan:

sensitive people, very connected to their nervous system, you know, but

Belinda Haan:

not necessarily wanting their nervous system, but to be as it is, you know,

Belinda Haan:

because like there's a, that Brooke, um, Thomas talks about my smoke

Belinda Haan:

alarm being, she talked about this in her, but this is true for me too.

Belinda Haan:

My smoke alarm is fix, fix too close to my cook Chop.

Sonya Stattmann:

Wow.

Belinda Haan:

but you know, that there's that sort of level of

Belinda Haan:

activation and threat that is, you know, is present and I'm building

Belinda Haan:

more capacity to be with that.

Belinda Haan:

I'm widening my window of tolerance all of the time through every moment that

Belinda Haan:

I turn towards my suffering rather.

Belinda Haan:

Judging myself, resisting it, you know, all of those things that I habitually

Belinda Haan:

do, which is a very human response.

Belinda Haan:

Every time I'm sort of spending a few seconds with sadness or anger

Belinda Haan:

or, you know, meeting the moment with care and patience and curiosity like

Belinda Haan:

that is widening my ability to be with the nervous system and whatever

Belinda Haan:

response it's having in that moment.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah.

Sonya Stattmann:

You know, it's interesting because I was thinking, you know, when you

Sonya Stattmann:

were talking, there was this, this feeling of, you know, when we abandon

Sonya Stattmann:

ourselves, we turn away from ourselves.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like, there's actually like a, a feeling sense of that right?

Sonya Stattmann:

When we turn away.

Sonya Stattmann:

Maybe the opposite of abandonment is, is embracing ourselves, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Are turning towards ourself.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like I think just that.

Sonya Stattmann:

On a feel sense level helps me kind of understand and explore like,

Sonya Stattmann:

what am I doing in this moment?

Sonya Stattmann:

Am I turning away from myself or am I turning towards myself?

Sonya Stattmann:

And I think that's really helpful for me at least.

Sonya Stattmann:

to look at that.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's like that there's some kind of anchor there that I can easily

Sonya Stattmann:

assess versus like, I could get in my head and be like, I don't know.

Sonya Stattmann:

Am I abandoning myself?

Sonya Stattmann:

Am I, am I not abandoning myself?

Sonya Stattmann:

What does that look like?

Sonya Stattmann:

But really just feeling.

Sonya Stattmann:

In this moment, in this experience, in this circumstance, am I turning

Sonya Stattmann:

towards myself with care or am I turning away from myself with, um,

Sonya Stattmann:

you know, disconnection or even

Belinda Haan:

Resistance.

Belinda Haan:

Yes.

Belinda Haan:

Judgment.

Belinda Haan:

Yes.

Belinda Haan:

Aversion,

Sonya Stattmann:

yes.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so that feeling sense is really powerful, you know, because if I can

Sonya Stattmann:

turn more towards myself, and that doesn't mean like I'm all great and

Sonya Stattmann:

like I'm turning towards myself cuz I'm all happy and wonderful, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

That means turning towards whatever I'm experiencing, whatever I'm feeling,

Sonya Stattmann:

whatever's happening in my life.

Sonya Stattmann:

And if we start to define it that way, I can really see all the

Sonya Stattmann:

ways I abandon myself, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

all the times I turn away from myself because I feel it's too hard or because,

Sonya Stattmann:

you know, I don't wanna navigate something or, you know, because it

Sonya Stattmann:

produces a reminder of what I think is unworthy in me, or, you know,

Sonya Stattmann:

And so it's like these little subtle ways I just kind of like turn away.

Sonya Stattmann:

what I wanna do, what I wanna practice, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

What I wanna live is more turning towards myself, more embracing myself.

Belinda Haan:

Yeah, so I love that embracing ourselves just

Belinda Haan:

feels so lovely, doesn't it?

Belinda Haan:

Such an act of compassion.

Belinda Haan:

And I think, you know, a little way to just build our muscle in turning

Belinda Haan:

towards ourselves is just dropping into.

Belinda Haan:

The felt and direct experience that we're having, you know, like,

Belinda Haan:

what is happening in my body?

Belinda Haan:

What are the sensations that I'm experiencing and how do

Belinda Haan:

I feel about this being here?

Belinda Haan:

You know, that's a, that's what, cuz I am like, but.

Belinda Haan:

I've got a PhD in resistance . You know, I just, I cannot have it.

Belinda Haan:

I need to fix it.

Belinda Haan:

I need to just buy a course or, you know, do do something to just

Belinda Haan:

make sure that this isn't here.

Belinda Haan:

But if I can just go, Okay, what's actually happening in my body?

Belinda Haan:

I'm noticing there's a lot of resistance and can I allow resistance to be here too?

Belinda Haan:

Because that is just part of it.

Belinda Haan:

And embracing ourselves and our experience in whatever.

Belinda Haan:

Is happening because I, I have found that my, my greatest moment of

Belinda Haan:

self abandonment is actually in the times that I'm having difficulty.

Belinda Haan:

It's in the times that I'm really needing support.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yes.

Belinda Haan:

And that is the saddest thing, isn't it?

Belinda Haan:

Because in the times that we actually really need support, I'm

Belinda Haan:

not there, you know, I'm just, I've, I've gone off on the, Yeah.

Belinda Haan:

I'm the labyrinth walker.

Belinda Haan:

Looking for all the solutions to, to what's happening instead of just actually

Belinda Haan:

coming back to what's actually happening in this current, current and present.

Belinda Haan:

What's my experience?

Belinda Haan:

How do I feel about my experience being here and looking at that and

Belinda Haan:

welcoming and loving the resistance too, because that is there and

Belinda Haan:

that's really part of being human.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yes.

Sonya Stattmann:

And you know, this is like such a good point I think because, and I think we talk

Sonya Stattmann:

about this a lot in this podcast, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

So often I think we kind of project onto what self development is,

Sonya Stattmann:

what personal growth is, is like this place to get, uh, Perfect.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right.

Sonya Stattmann:

Or to, to, to get to a place where we don't have difficult emotions or when we

Sonya Stattmann:

don't have difficult experiences are when, when we're enlightened or embodied or,

Sonya Stattmann:

you know, and, and yet really what it is about is embracing whatever it is, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

the good and the bad and the ugly and the, and the wonderful and the like.

Sonya Stattmann:

Every single experience that we have, embracing it all.

Sonya Stattmann:

That's a very, very different.

Sonya Stattmann:

Perspective than I think we traditionally think of growth or development and

Sonya Stattmann:

you know, I, I've been exploring kind of this idea around embodiment.

Sonya Stattmann:

I mean, for so long I thought, oh, to be embodied is to be feeling everything

Sonya Stattmann:

and to be centered and to be, wonderful.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like, and being embodied is like the thing I want to achieve, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

And then as I started to kind of unpack that and explore the ways

Sonya Stattmann:

I perceive that, I realized like we are embodied all the time.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like we have patterns that are fully embodied, , right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Our good patterns and our sabotaging patterns, they are fully embodied.

Sonya Stattmann:

So the problem is not that we're not embodied, maybe it's about being

Sonya Stattmann:

more consciously embodied, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Maybe it's being more connected, but that really kind of flipped the switch for me

Sonya Stattmann:

of the way that I look at self development and enlightenment and embodiment.

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm like, Oh wait, , I'm, I'm practicing embodiment.

Sonya Stattmann:

All the time, just maybe not in ways that are aligned with who I wanna be.

Belinda Haan:

Yes, Yes, absolutely.

Belinda Haan:

And we have these challenges that come up and like you said,

Belinda Haan:

it's already present in the body.

Belinda Haan:

The challenge, and then.

Belinda Haan:

What we do is habitually, well, me anyway, resist and judge and make

Belinda Haan:

meaning and catastrophize and seek solutions, make meaning, all of that.

Belinda Haan:

And that's actually the unnecessary suffering that we do

Belinda Haan:

for ourselves.

Belinda Haan:

And that's when we actually self abandon as opposed to just, you

Belinda Haan:

know, let's just slow things down, what's actually happening and,

Belinda Haan:

and realizing the intelligence.

Belinda Haan:

Of the experience and, and that, and that.

Belinda Haan:

Even like in the difficulty, it's a messenger.

Belinda Haan:

It's actually just a call back home.

Belinda Haan:

I mean, we might have a preference about it not being there, a really strong

Belinda Haan:

preference at times, but, you know, anger, self-criticism, all, everything that is.

Belinda Haan:

In our experiences, um, is especially the difficult things, all of the, um,

Belinda Haan:

negative thoughts we've got about ourself, they're all just a messenger to come back

Belinda Haan:

to an innate wholeness that is always present, always whole and complete, and

Belinda Haan:

joyful and accepting regardless of what content is happening, what our emotions

Belinda Haan:

are, what our thoughts are, what's happening in our external environment.

Belinda Haan:

It's like this.

Belinda Haan:

Haven that we can come back into regardless of what's,

Belinda Haan:

what is our experience?

Sonya Stattmann:

Exactly.

Sonya Stattmann:

Exactly.

Sonya Stattmann:

I love that.

Sonya Stattmann:

I just think this is such a, An important topic because when we can

Sonya Stattmann:

recognize how we abandon ourselves or what that feels like, what that looks

Sonya Stattmann:

like, then we can just choose to start turning towards ourselves, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

In the smallest of micro moments.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so maybe let's talk a little bit about that.

Sonya Stattmann:

You know, how do we start to choose connection or choose to turn, turn towards

Sonya Stattmann:

ourselves or choose to embrace ourselves?

Sonya Stattmann:

and I think one of the things that sometimes happens too is when we,

Sonya Stattmann:

when we choose to reconnect, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Or to re-embrace ourselves, sometimes there can be some

Sonya Stattmann:

emotion, some latent emotions there.

Sonya Stattmann:

You know, maybe we feel the pain of the abandonment that we did, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Like, I definitely know that sometimes when I have been abandoning

Sonya Stattmann:

myself, disconnected, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

I've been in my head.

Sonya Stattmann:

When I finally feel something again, when I let myself drop back into my

Sonya Stattmann:

body, you know, there can be sadness and you know, loss and grief even at the

Sonya Stattmann:

ways that I did turn away from myself.

Sonya Stattmann:

And it just like rises up instantly.

Sonya Stattmann:

And you know, if I let myself feel it, then I go through that and

Sonya Stattmann:

then I can be more reconnected.

Sonya Stattmann:

But I think those are things that, you know, not a lot of people talk about.

Belinda Haan:

Yes.

Belinda Haan:

And inner child work is so powerful, you know, in this,

Belinda Haan:

in this way of being able to.

Belinda Haan:

And, and I remember when I first started inner child work, I, I really

Belinda Haan:

had a terrible relationship with my inner child and was really yeah, just

Belinda Haan:

an adverse, adverse relationship.

Belinda Haan:

But as we sort of connect in with the innocence of, of our inner

Belinda Haan:

child and the ways that we weren.

Belinda Haan:

Supported or it didn't have our needs met, you know, through no fault.

Belinda Haan:

You know, everyone's trying their best, but there's

Belinda Haan:

different situations that happen.

Belinda Haan:

That's a way for us to turn towards our experience by creating intimacy

Belinda Haan:

with our inner child and, and just generally building our self awareness.

Belinda Haan:

Like I really think self awareness is.

Belinda Haan:

So core and critical to this and to generally reclaiming ourselves if we

Belinda Haan:

are not building our, our knowledge about ourselves, our quirks, you know,

Belinda Haan:

the things that activate us into self abandonment, you know, our strengths.

Belinda Haan:

If we are not having intimacy with who we are as a person, then

Belinda Haan:

how can we know when, when we've abandoned ourselves or even what we.

Belinda Haan:

from life.

Belinda Haan:

You know, that self-awareness is just so critical and that that can just

Belinda Haan:

simply be having a journaling practice.

Belinda Haan:

And I know you and I just love that.

Belinda Haan:

Just writing every day and with no purpose, just to sort of, Really be

Belinda Haan:

able to see what's actually happening.

Belinda Haan:

And you can be so alarmed by the thoughts and by the criticism and

Belinda Haan:

everything, but isn't it better to know because it's already happening?

Belinda Haan:

But by bringing it to the surface and really understanding ourselves and

Belinda Haan:

our habits and our conditions, and.

Belinda Haan:

Our strengths and all the things that we need to thrive and flourish as

Belinda Haan:

opposed to all the things that drain our energy without building that

Belinda Haan:

ongoing inner dialogue about what, what, who we are and what we need.

Belinda Haan:

It's really impossible to sort of be able to discern when we've

Belinda Haan:

abandoned ourselves or not.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yes, And I think, you know, even that daily

Sonya Stattmann:

practice, even creating the space, so you know, sometimes when I.

Sonya Stattmann:

Am not abandoning myself.

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm creating space every day for journaling or sitting somewhere like

Sonya Stattmann:

doesn't, Sometimes I don't even journal, but just sitting, not staring at my

Sonya Stattmann:

phone, not trying to get something done.

Sonya Stattmann:

Not having an agenda, but just sitting, looking out at the

Sonya Stattmann:

world, drinking my coffee, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Just giving myself that time is resourcing myself.

Sonya Stattmann:

It is embracing myself.

Sonya Stattmann:

It is honoring myself.

Sonya Stattmann:

And magic happens even if I don't journal, even if there's nothing that comes out.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's like something happens when I just drop into just being without an agenda.

Sonya Stattmann:

and you know, just allowing myself to be and allowing myself to sit

Sonya Stattmann:

that magically reclaims myself again, that magically reconnects.

Sonya Stattmann:

And like I said, sometimes there's emotion there.

Sonya Stattmann:

If I felt really disconnected, and this is a constant process I go

Sonya Stattmann:

through, like I abandon myself.

Sonya Stattmann:

A lot, and I think we all do.

Sonya Stattmann:

We, we don't have a world that honors embracing ourselves.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like the whole world teaches us in so many ways to dishonor, disregard,

Sonya Stattmann:

disconnect to who we are and what we need in service of whatever agenda, you know,

Sonya Stattmann:

the world has in all these different ways.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so just giving yourself, 30 minutes a day.

Sonya Stattmann:

An hour a day, that is just space to be is quite a gift.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I find that when I start that process, I reconnect in such a powerful way that

Sonya Stattmann:

a lot of things flow better in my life.

Sonya Stattmann:

And when I don't allow that process and I abandon what I need in so many ways, then

Sonya Stattmann:

everything's more clunky and everything's more challenging and everything's harder.

Belinda Haan:

Mm.

Belinda Haan:

Yes.

Belinda Haan:

I wholeheartedly agree.

Belinda Haan:

And I think we've got very similar defensive strategies in terms of

Belinda Haan:

that, And back to, I think one of your original questions about what is the

Belinda Haan:

felt experience of self abandonment, Like one of the felt experiences that I

Belinda Haan:

have is a era, you know, just that inner.

Belinda Haan:

Racing and feeling very busy and like, I've just gotta get

Belinda Haan:

things done and blah, blah, blah.

Belinda Haan:

I need all, I've got all this stuff on and.

Belinda Haan:

Even though it's the opposite of what you wanna do, that is a call to slow

Belinda Haan:

down and have a bit of connection because that racing is from a threat response,

Sonya Stattmann:

That's right.

Belinda Haan:

And even though we just in that moment, I know do not wanna

Belinda Haan:

stop and have 20 minutes to ourselves or whatever, that's just the last thing

Belinda Haan:

that we wanna do because we feel so busy.

Belinda Haan:

But that is, And overwhelmed, but that's actually what is required

Belinda Haan:

in that moment to reconnect.

Belinda Haan:

And then all of that other stuff becomes easier and you become

Belinda Haan:

more productive and all of that.

Belinda Haan:

Um, but that's just a really practical way that I notice just

Belinda Haan:

that racing and busyness and just the feeling of not having enough time.

Sonya Stattmann:

yeah, I feel like I'm haunted by my to-do list.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like I feel like it's like this monster chasing me all the time.

Sonya Stattmann:

And, but the interesting part that I'm learning about myself, and I feel like

Sonya Stattmann:

it's relevant to this as well, is.

Sonya Stattmann:

when I feel it's chasing me, when I feel like I've got too much to do

Sonya Stattmann:

and like I'm totally out of my body.

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm not dropping in to check in with myself at what, what really needs to be

Sonya Stattmann:

done, Where do I really need to focus so I'm spinning or I'm avoiding, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Like I'm either spinning and nothing's getting done either

Sonya Stattmann:

like I'm racing, but not getting anywhere right on that rat wheel.

Sonya Stattmann:

or I'm like completely resisting and distracting

Sonya Stattmann:

myself in about a thousand ways.

Sonya Stattmann:

Whereas if I just took that 10 minutes just to drop in or 20 minutes to

Sonya Stattmann:

drop in and feel, Where am I at?

Sonya Stattmann:

What, what do I really need right now?

Sonya Stattmann:

Then I think, yeah, everything would flow through so much more smoothly, and I do.

Sonya Stattmann:

That the majority of us are in response, like we're, we're in reaction, we're

Sonya Stattmann:

in our survival, our fight and flight or appease, or you know, whatever it is

Sonya Stattmann:

that are kind of our survival strategies.

Sonya Stattmann:

I think we're living in that all the time and we're normalizing it.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's normal.

Sonya Stattmann:

This is just normal.

Sonya Stattmann:

This is just what we experience every day.

Sonya Stattmann:

This is what we're practicing.

Sonya Stattmann:

they're all mechanisms, that are being activated.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so I think it's so important to just become aware of, you know, like you said,

Sonya Stattmann:

I think self-awareness is the key here.

Sonya Stattmann:

We're really just looking at, how do we have more self-awareness

Sonya Stattmann:

around what it feels like for.

Sonya Stattmann:

What the patterns are for us, What triggers us to self abandon and how

Sonya Stattmann:

do we, have more awareness too of when we can embrace ourselves and what that

Belinda Haan:

Yes, Yes.

Belinda Haan:

And and dropping below the behavior.

Belinda Haan:

So my behavior of overworking, for example, below that is

Belinda Haan:

a sense of unworthiness.

Belinda Haan:

Like, I need to prove myself, I need to achieve things externally.

Belinda Haan:

To be okay.

Belinda Haan:

You know, I need to get the validation of others to be okay.

Belinda Haan:

So I've gotta quickly work, work, work, work, like make sure I'm

Belinda Haan:

o you know, overthinking it, perfecting it, everything like that,

Belinda Haan:

And that just sort of keeps me in that real, um, drive overwhelm state.

Belinda Haan:

Um, so dropping below the behavior to sort of really understand what's actually

Belinda Haan:

below this and, Back to your point about turning towards ourselves and saying,

Belinda Haan:

Oh, you know, of course, you know, we all feel unworthy at times and can I

Belinda Haan:

just be with that for a moment with gentleness and connection to the fact

Belinda Haan:

that we all feel like this sometimes.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah.

Sonya Stattmann:

I love that.

Sonya Stattmann:

I mean, we have to wrap up for today.

Sonya Stattmann:

I mean, I feel like this is such a, a big topic and we could, I think we

Sonya Stattmann:

could have like a whole series just on this, but I think what I've taken away

Sonya Stattmann:

from today is really that feeling of acknowledging and noticing and becoming

Sonya Stattmann:

more aware of when do I turn away from myself and when do I turn towards myself.

Sonya Stattmann:

And you know, I really appreciate, you know, this conversation cause I think

Sonya Stattmann:

it's really highlighted that for me.

Sonya Stattmann:

anything you'd like to kind of finish out with before

Belinda Haan:

Yes, I, I'd just like to offer this roomy quote, which is

Belinda Haan:

just, it's an ongoing contemplation for me, and I think it really

Belinda Haan:

relates to this, um, this episode.

Belinda Haan:

It is not my purpose to seek love.

Belinda Haan:

It is my purpose to seek the barriers, patterns and beliefs

Belinda Haan:

that stop love from flowing in.

Sonya Stattmann:

Mm.

Sonya Stattmann:

I love that.

Sonya Stattmann:

That's so beautiful and that I think that definitely relates to self love

Belinda Haan:

Mm.

Belinda Haan:

Yes.

Sonya Stattmann:

Thank you so much, Belinda, for being here, and

Sonya Stattmann:

thank you everyone for listening, and we will see you next week.

Belinda Haan:

Hi, it's Belinda.

Belinda Haan:

I hope you were able to get some little nuggets of wisdom or maybe some seeds

Belinda Haan:

of compassion through this episode.

Belinda Haan:

If you would like to learn more about this topic, you can sign up

Belinda Haan:

to my newsletter@belindahan.com.

Belinda Haan:

Have an amazing day, and I hope to see you next time.

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About Sonya Stattmann

Sonya has spent the last 24 years working with thousands of individuals, leaders & organizations around personal development. She offers resilience-based tools for stress management, mental wellness, navigating change, and dealing with relationship challenges. She currently works 1:1 with founders, leaders & high achievers through her stress management coaching program. She also offers wellness & resilience workshops for teams. She also hosts both public and private podcasts. Her mission is to help individuals and teams build more resilience and navigate adversity, change & stress more effectively. She currently resides in the USA, but you can often find her and her family traveling the globe.