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Spiritually Grounded | Reclaiming Something Bigger than Ourselves

Spirituality takes many forms, from public worship to quiet meditation, and even cheering on your favorite sports team! Sonya and Belinda unpack what being spiritually grounded actually means & share their thoughts on why a personal connection to spirit is an important part of reclaiming ourselves. 

Being spiritually grounded is being connected to our inner self AND connected to something bigger than ourselves. 

It is not either/or, but both. That bigger connection can be based on a higher power, community or nature. It is a cultivation of our connection to something safe and supportive and that relationship, what defines safe and supportive for each of us, is unique. 

They suggest methods and resources that can help you get started with exploring your spiritual side, and the core considerations for building a personalized spiritual practice.  

Join us as we discuss

  • 09:52 The way our brain reacts when we feel connected to something bigger than ourselves.
  • 14:17 Why we think that resourcing ourselves requires disconnecting from others.
  • 16:25 Compassion as a starting point for spiritual growth.
  • 16:51 “Spiritual bypassing,” and the lure of accessing higher awareness while ignoring its spiritual and emotional content.
  • 37:44 Why creating space to be with ourselves is so important to any spiritual practice. 

Resources mentioned in the show:

Learn more about Sonya & Belinda

—> Sonya Stattmann is the host & creator of Reclaiming Ourselves™. She is a TEDx & corporate speaker and has been working with leaders around personal development for the last 22 years. She teaches workshops & offers small group programs around emotional intelligence, transformational & embodied leadership, and energy management. You can find more about her here:

Website: https://www.sonyastattmann.com/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonyastattmann/

—> Belinda Haan, co-host of Reclaiming Ourselves, is a gifted Masters-level certified professional coach who has worked with leaders and executives in various Fortune 500 corporations worldwide. She is a mindfulness and compassion teacher and facilitates group and individual therapeutic interventions that promote inner connection and belonging. She is personally passionate about bridging the gap between science and spirit, using an empathic, grounded approach that weaves contemplative practice and accessible personal development with her clients. You can find more about her here:

Website: www.belindahaan.com

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/belinda-haan-b1b02815/

What you can do next:

  1. For more episodes, opportunities, and information on the hosts, visit http://reclaimingourselvespodcast.com/
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Thank you for being you. We are so honored to have you as a listener!

Transcript
Sonya Stattmann:

I think that we have to talk about this because

Sonya Stattmann:

so often, you know, it kind of reminds me of like, inbox zero.

Sonya Stattmann:

You know, like a lot of people are trying to like, get their emails to zero.

Sonya Stattmann:

I feel like in spirituality they're trying to get their thoughts to zero.

Sonya Stattmann:

that is not

Sonya Stattmann:

reality.

Sonya Stattmann:

that's not

Sonya Stattmann:

realistic.

Belinda Haan:

That is not realistic at all.

Belinda Haan:

And you know, if someone finds the answer that let me know, but I, But really the,

Belinda Haan:

the, like you said, the intention is about being aware of what was already there

Belinda Haan:

before we were doing any of these things.

Belinda Haan:

It's just that we become, we, we grow in our, awareness and we grow in our ability.

Belinda Haan:

Notice it with humor and compassion and you know, Oh, look at that, you

Belinda Haan:

know, self criticism is here again.

Belinda Haan:

And just connect back in with what's important with us.

Belinda Haan:

So we don't, don't resist all of those thoughts.

Belinda Haan:

We don't judge ourselves it and all that.

Belinda Haan:

It's actually just about then going, Oh, look at all that content.

Belinda Haan:

And then connecting with, with what's required from, from us In

Belinda Haan:

that moment.

Sonya Stattmann:

If, you know, there is something deep inside of

Sonya Stattmann:

you that is yearning to be seen, to be known and to have expression.

Sonya Stattmann:

If there's something you need to reclaim and remember maybe it's your

Sonya Stattmann:

power or your purpose, your gifts.

Sonya Stattmann:

This is the podcast for you.

Sonya Stattmann:

Welcome to reclaiming ourselves.

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm your host, Sonya Stattmann and I'm honored to have three amazing

Sonya Stattmann:

co-hosts Laura Shook-Guzman Belinda Haan And Emily Soccorsy here with

Sonya Stattmann:

me on this journey to self discovery every week, we're gonna help you

Sonya Stattmann:

unravel And remember what it means to reclaim yourself to own who you are to

Sonya Stattmann:

recognize your innate worth

Sonya Stattmann:

and greatness.

Sonya Stattmann:

Now, this podcast is a deep dive into self-development healing and empowerment.

Sonya Stattmann:

So hold on.

Sonya Stattmann:

Here we go.

Sonya Stattmann:

Hi, and welcome back to Reclaiming Ourselves.

Sonya Stattmann:

I am super excited because this week we're diving into actually one of

Sonya Stattmann:

my favorite topics, and I'm with

Sonya Stattmann:

Belinda Hahn, who is definitely

Sonya Stattmann:

one of my favorite co-hosts.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so we are gonna

Sonya Stattmann:

have a really

Sonya Stattmann:

awesome chat and exploration around what we're coining as grounded spirituality.

Sonya Stattmann:

Okay, so this is a big one to unpack.

Sonya Stattmann:

Belinda, how are you doing?

Belinda Haan:

Yeah, so it is a big one to unpack ,but I'm really

Belinda Haan:

excited to give it, a go with you.

Belinda Haan:

I think it, yeah, I'm really excited

Belinda Haan:

about this conversation.

Belinda Haan:

It's a real passion area for me as well.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so maybe let's start with talking

Sonya Stattmann:

about what spirituality is, at least what perspective that we

Sonya Stattmann:

wanna look at it

Sonya Stattmann:

through so that you you know, Belinda and I were

Sonya Stattmann:

talking a little bit before the episode

Sonya Stattmann:

about

Sonya Stattmann:

how

Sonya Stattmann:

people often frame spirituality, and I think we look at

Sonya Stattmann:

it

Sonya Stattmann:

from a very different viewpoint.

Sonya Stattmann:

So maybe let's start there.

Sonya Stattmann:

How would you define spirituality?

Belinda Haan:

Yes.

Belinda Haan:

Well it's, it's such a

Belinda Haan:

big topic and it's really one that is so personal and private,

Belinda Haan:

so it's really hard to sort of,

Belinda Haan:

Definition around, but I think there's a

Belinda Haan:

lot of confusion and you know, we've all got a lot of history,

Belinda Haan:

you know, potentially with religion and all of that sort of thing.

Belinda Haan:

Um, so I might

Belinda Haan:

just actually use Brene Brown's words to describe what I mean by

Belinda Haan:

spirituality, cuz I think she does a much better job than I could.

Belinda Haan:

Um, so spirituality is recognizing and celebrating that we are all

Belinda Haan:

inextricably connected to each other by power greater than all of

Belinda Haan:

us.

Belinda Haan:

And that our

Belinda Haan:

connection to that power end to one another is grounded in love and

Belinda Haan:

compassion.

Belinda Haan:

Practicing spirituality brings a sense of perspective, meaning,

Belinda Haan:

and purpose to our lives.

Sonya Stattmann:

I love that I think that really does provide

Sonya Stattmann:

such a powerful viewpoint, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

I mean, And I think that the things that have always stood out for me

Sonya Stattmann:

in terms of that kind of definition around spirituality is that

Sonya Stattmann:

it's something

Sonya Stattmann:

bigger

Sonya Stattmann:

than ourselves.

Belinda Haan:

Yes,

Sonya Stattmann:

So,

Sonya Stattmann:

you know, I think that's a really important piece, And it's our

Sonya Stattmann:

relationship to that bigger

Sonya Stattmann:

thing, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

So it's how we view it, how we respond with it, how we relate with it.

Sonya Stattmann:

And it very much is centered around connectedness.

Belinda Haan:

Yes, absolutely.

Belinda Haan:

And it, doesn't have to involve religion at all.

Belinda Haan:

So, you know, and the way that I look at it in terms of my

Belinda Haan:

own practical experience of

Belinda Haan:

this, it's sort of connecting with something.

Belinda Haan:

Bigger than myself, and also

Belinda Haan:

uncovering the layers that prevent me from experiencing my true nature, which is

Belinda Haan:

all already whole, perfect and complete.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yes.

Sonya Stattmann:

I love that because I guess

Sonya Stattmann:

we can't really talk about spirituality without, also

Sonya Stattmann:

talking about our essential self.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right.

Sonya Stattmann:

and so let's kind of unpack even what that

Sonya Stattmann:

is, because, you know, I talk a lot about the essential self or the authentic self,

Sonya Stattmann:

or the innate self, but, you know, how would you define the essential self?

Belinda Haan:

it's really how we were born.

Belinda Haan:

We were born these pure innocent.

Belinda Haan:

Whole beings.

Belinda Haan:

And

Belinda Haan:

then as I think I've mentioned before, life just throws a

Belinda Haan:

whole lot of things our way.

Belinda Haan:

And you know, we innocently and naturally

Belinda Haan:

create defenses and protection to be able to survive and to be

Belinda Haan:

able to live in, in the world.

Belinda Haan:

And, so this happens obviously in childhood and then

Belinda Haan:

also in adulthood as well.

Belinda Haan:

you know, mostly we're not even.

Belinda Haan:

Aware of these kind of defenses and protections, but what we

Belinda Haan:

might experience are behaviors.

Belinda Haan:

In ourselves that we're not happy with or, you know, we are constantly

Belinda Haan:

hooked by, um, our conditioning fear and all, all of that sort of thing.

Belinda Haan:

but then, you know, at, at, at a certain point, we get a call to

Belinda Haan:

come home to that essential self.

Belinda Haan:

And, and in my experience and in the, in what I've witnessed with

Belinda Haan:

others as well, it's really born.

Belinda Haan:

Intense suffering or difficulty that that call really comes forward.

Belinda Haan:

And maybe we get lots of small, subtle messages to come home to that essential

Belinda Haan:

self, but we, you know, are too busy or distracted or, you know, just doing

Belinda Haan:

our thing, life is happening and kids and everything like that, that we can't

Belinda Haan:

either act or we can't hear that call.

Belinda Haan:

And then sometimes it takes a big knock on the head to, to realize that

Belinda Haan:

you know, it's time to come back home.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah.

Sonya Stattmann:

You know, And I think it's really important to say too, that real

Sonya Stattmann:

spirituality.

Sonya Stattmann:

Includes our connection to our essential self, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Because I think if you think about sort of what a lot of us

Sonya Stattmann:

traditionally, you know, looked at as spirituality, so religions, you

Sonya Stattmann:

know, oftentimes they can shame our

Sonya Stattmann:

essential self right?

Sonya Stattmann:

There's a lot of shaming in certain,

Sonya Stattmann:

um, religions or

Sonya Stattmann:

certain indoctrinations, certain

Sonya Stattmann:

doctrines.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so, You know, when we are

Sonya Stattmann:

ashamed, we disconnect from our essential self.

Sonya Stattmann:

And you

Sonya Stattmann:

know, I think it's important to that when we talk about spirituality,

Sonya Stattmann:

you know, there has to be this connection to your essential self.

Sonya Stattmann:

so it's not just practicing a doctrine or

Sonya Stattmann:

repeating something that someone else has taught you to repeat.

Sonya Stattmann:

It is your actual connection to your essential self and

Sonya Stattmann:

something bigger than yourself.

Belinda Haan:

Yes, absolutely.

Belinda Haan:

And I, I think that personally, you know, I've sort of seen that perhaps

Belinda Haan:

being on the spiritual journey means an end to all suffering, and that

Belinda Haan:

these teachers have somehow, like, got it all sorted and that they don't

Belinda Haan:

suffer and they're, you know, you know, always compassionate and all of that.

Belinda Haan:

And, and then you realize actually the journey is actually

Belinda Haan:

personal and private and it.

Belinda Haan:

Actually about connecting to our central self and I think that some people get

Belinda Haan:

confused about that because they think, Oh, That's a selfish kind of spirituality.

Belinda Haan:

But actually if we are connected to our central self, then.

Belinda Haan:

Everything naturally happens.

Belinda Haan:

We're naturally more compassionate.

Belinda Haan:

We're naturally more present with others, so that through that inner

Belinda Haan:

journey, it actually has outer ripples that just make the hugest

Belinda Haan:

difference to the people that we love.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yes.

Sonya Stattmann:

I love that.

Sonya Stattmann:

Okay, so we've kind of created at least a sort of reference point with what

Sonya Stattmann:

we're talking about around spirituality.

Sonya Stattmann:

Let's maybe unpack and talk about why.

Sonya Stattmann:

, this is important, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Why does it matter that we talk about spirituality,

Sonya Stattmann:

that we reclaim spirituality, whatever that looks like for us.

Sonya Stattmann:

Why do we need to have a whole topic on this, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

I think that's an important thing because some people might listen to

Sonya Stattmann:

this and be like, Ah, I don't really care about that, or, It's not really

Sonya Stattmann:

important for me, or It doesn't really matter to me, but why should we?

Sonya Stattmann:

, What doesn't matter, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

And how can we share with people some of the values and

Sonya Stattmann:

the importance of this topic?

Belinda Haan:

Yes, Yes, Well, you know, in terms of

Belinda Haan:

my own journey, I, I really feel like the reason

Belinda Haan:

why this has been important is I've had this really strong drive and

Belinda Haan:

intention.

Belinda Haan:

to

Belinda Haan:

live a full,

Belinda Haan:

rich, and meaningful life.

Belinda Haan:

and so that has always been really from a young age, my motivation.

Belinda Haan:

And I guess I've then realized that connecting to a spiritual path was.

Belinda Haan:

the way for me to sort of be able to fulfill that and also do all of the

Belinda Haan:

psychological work that I've done as well.

Belinda Haan:

Um, but from a science perspective.

Belinda Haan:

So, um, and I know that a lot of people really value that, you

Belinda Haan:

know, um, neuroscientists at, um, Columbia and Yale University in 2018.

Belinda Haan:

Discovered the spiritual part of

Belinda Haan:

our brain so that is when we are

Belinda Haan:

connecting to something higher and bigger than ourselves and

Belinda Haan:

It doesn't have to

Belinda Haan:

be a connection to God through prayer.

Belinda Haan:

That that could be one

Belinda Haan:

of

Belinda Haan:

the things.

Belinda Haan:

It can even be a sporting

Belinda Haan:

event.

Belinda Haan:

And you know, I know in America and

Belinda Haan:

Australia

Belinda Haan:

as well, big sporting

Belinda Haan:

fans,

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah.

Sonya Stattmann:

People are gonna love hearing this.

Sonya Stattmann:

You're validating their

Sonya Stattmann:

passion,

Belinda Haan:

absolutely.

Belinda Haan:

So that is a connection that is spirituality and um, and it's something

Belinda Haan:

that people don't probably think about, but that's actually that sense of

Belinda Haan:

just openness and space and spacious and connection beyond ourselves as

Belinda Haan:

well.

Belinda Haan:

And you know, being in nature.

Belinda Haan:

, you know,

Belinda Haan:

when you're in nature it can just be that expansion because you realize that

Belinda Haan:

nature's just there doing its thing.

Belinda Haan:

It's sort of not really phased by, by what's going on.

Belinda Haan:

Um, so that's that.

Belinda Haan:

And in terms of the benefits of scientific benefits of spirituality, we

Belinda Haan:

have increased health outcomes, greater psychological wellbeing, less depression.

Belinda Haan:

Less hypertension, less stress, You know, our ability to sort of deal with

Belinda Haan:

stress is, you know, so much, greater.

Belinda Haan:

So they're the sort of scientific kind of validations, I guess, of, of connecting to

Belinda Haan:

something higher.

Belinda Haan:

But to me, you know,

Belinda Haan:

in terms of the

Belinda Haan:

reclaiming ourselves, I have.

Belinda Haan:

Been on the reclaiming ourselves journey for about 20 years.

Belinda Haan:

and I have reclaimed myself and take action towards reclaiming

Belinda Haan:

myself to what I think Gabriel Matte says, the secondary self

Belinda Haan:

So the, the self that I constructed myself to be, which was not the essential self.

Belinda Haan:

And so it just took me down so many rabbit holes of thinking that this is the path.

Belinda Haan:

This is who I'm meant to be.

Belinda Haan:

This is how I'm showing up in the world.

Belinda Haan:

But it was really based on a false self.

Belinda Haan:

And as I've become more aligned to my essential self, then life is It just has,

Belinda Haan:

um, a, a greater alignment, You know, I still get hooked and have suffering

Belinda Haan:

and all of that, but I feel much more

Belinda Haan:

resourced to be

Belinda Haan:

able to deal with that.

Belinda Haan:

So that's sort of a practical reality.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yes.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yes.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I

Sonya Stattmann:

think that resource,

Sonya Stattmann:

our ability to be able

Sonya Stattmann:

to resource, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Laura and I have talked a lot about that in some of our previous podcasts

Sonya Stattmann:

where, it's that source, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

So our essential self is connected to that source.

Sonya Stattmann:

Our spirituality is connected to that source, Whatever that

Sonya Stattmann:

source looks like for you.

Sonya Stattmann:

We need to resource

Sonya Stattmann:

ourselves.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so often what happens is if we, if we don't have a healthy spirituality,

Sonya Stattmann:

if we don't feel the connectedness to something bigger than ourselves, and

Sonya Stattmann:

we're in a disconnection with that.

Sonya Stattmann:

We feel less

Sonya Stattmann:

resourced, we feel more exhausted.

Sonya Stattmann:

We feel more at the edge of burnout We like.

Sonya Stattmann:

There's so many ways at which, you know, when we disconnect to

Sonya Stattmann:

spirituality, when we disconnect to something bigger than

Sonya Stattmann:

ourselves, we are disconnecting

Sonya Stattmann:

to our innate power, our innate worthiness.

Sonya Stattmann:

You know, who we were born to be.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so I think that is such a key thing to recognize when

Sonya Stattmann:

we talk about essential self.

Sonya Stattmann:

And when we talk about connecting to something bigger,

Sonya Stattmann:

they're one and the same.

Sonya Stattmann:

They're, they're part of that same, thing.

Sonya Stattmann:

That same arc, that same piece.

Sonya Stattmann:

Because I think a lot of times when people think about reclaiming themselves,

Sonya Stattmann:

they feel sometimes like they have to disconnect from everyone else.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right.

Sonya Stattmann:

Or disconnect from things that are bigger than themselves to hoard their energy.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right.

Sonya Stattmann:

So, so, you know, I wanna unpack this for a second cuz I think

Sonya Stattmann:

this is really important, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

There's this idea that we're, we're spending all our energy outside of us,

Sonya Stattmann:

especially for women and moms and business owners and many other people like that.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so we think that by disconnecting from everything we're going to

Sonya Stattmann:

resource ourselves, but it's

Sonya Stattmann:

actually the

Sonya Stattmann:

opposite.

Belinda Haan:

Yes, Absolutely.

Belinda Haan:

And, as, and I know, that you and I both,

Belinda Haan:

we absolutely love solitude and space to ourselves,

Belinda Haan:

and part of my spiritual journey has been to

Belinda Haan:

see that

Belinda Haan:

life is the spiritual journey,

Sonya Stattmann:

Yes.

Belinda Haan:

of the things, you know, That all the content,

Belinda Haan:

all the things that happen, that

Belinda Haan:

is

Belinda Haan:

the, practice of being able to meet

Belinda Haan:

those moments.

Belinda Haan:

You know, and it's sometimes so

Belinda Haan:

difficult and you know, I've had so many fantasies about just going on retreat

Belinda Haan:

on my own because then everything's gonna be fine because I'm gonna be

Belinda Haan:

resourced and I just have to look after myself.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah, but you know

Sonya Stattmann:

what's so

Sonya Stattmann:

interesting, Belinda, like, and tell me if you have the same experience.

Sonya Stattmann:

the thing is, I can be with myself and be disconnected or I can be

Sonya Stattmann:

with myself and be connected, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

So my best, most expansive times, the times that I'm connected to my essential

Sonya Stattmann:

self and my spiritual self, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Those are times I might.

Sonya Stattmann:

Still be alone, but like you said, I'm in nature, I'm connected to nature.

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm looking at life through this really

Sonya Stattmann:

expansive and connected lens.

Sonya Stattmann:

So I might still be literally physically by myself, but I'm fully connected

Sonya Stattmann:

and I can also disconnect, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

I can, I can be in a Netflix binge, I can, you know, be in this place

Sonya Stattmann:

where I'm totally sheltered and I'm not feeling connected to anything.

Sonya Stattmann:

and so I am physically, you know, Separated and spiritually separated.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so you know, it is, it's not about being alone or being with people,

Sonya Stattmann:

it's about the, spirit at which you are alone or the spirit at which

Sonya Stattmann:

you

Sonya Stattmann:

are

Sonya Stattmann:

with people.

Belinda Haan:

Yes, absolutely.

Belinda Haan:

And as we'll talk about and forgetting And

Belinda Haan:

remembering, it's also, it's also navigating all of that as well.

Belinda Haan:

you

Belinda Haan:

know the connection, disconnection and all of all of that.

Belinda Haan:

And

Belinda Haan:

what I've really

Belinda Haan:

found has been the secret source that I've really

Belinda Haan:

only started to

Belinda Haan:

embody this year is compassion.

Belinda Haan:

and I think that that is the secret source for

Belinda Haan:

everything, including

Belinda Haan:

that as spiritual growth.

Belinda Haan:

Because what has happened up

Belinda Haan:

until this

Belinda Haan:

year really is that in a way I've used my spiritual journey

Belinda Haan:

as a way of avoiding.

Belinda Haan:

The content that was

Belinda Haan:

arising.

Belinda Haan:

So,

Belinda Haan:

you know, there's a

Belinda Haan:

term called

Belinda Haan:

spiritual bypassing,

Belinda Haan:

where you

Belinda Haan:

just access higher awareness and higher states and avoid

Belinda Haan:

the

Belinda Haan:

content.

Belinda Haan:

Uh, the psychological and emotional content and

Belinda Haan:

therefore, you know, not really,

Belinda Haan:

Moving towards being a compassionate, present

Sonya Stattmann:

That's

Belinda Haan:

person, which is what I want.

Belinda Haan:

and

Belinda Haan:

and that was part, that was like full compassion to myself for doing

Belinda Haan:

that because it was actually really painful being with myself, you know,

Belinda Haan:

for a long time there was just so much flooding of emotional content.

Belinda Haan:

And psychological content that arose.

Belinda Haan:

So of course I wanted to go back into these blissful awareness states, but I

Belinda Haan:

think that, um, that's where the, you know, once I sort of have started to

Belinda Haan:

really embody and practice compassion, that has been the difference between

Belinda Haan:

being able to be with myself in that open state versus having that

Belinda Haan:

sort of real constriction

Belinda Haan:

and disconnection.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah.

Sonya Stattmann:

Uh, I can so feel that.

Sonya Stattmann:

And you know, for me, one of the things I've really struggled with is that a lot

Sonya Stattmann:

of the spiritual communities I've tested out or I've been a part of so often,

Sonya Stattmann:

they're practicing a lot of spiritual bypassing, are so often they're longing

Sonya Stattmann:

not for the human interactions or a human connection or understanding how they work

Sonya Stattmann:

or navigating what's coming up for them.

Sonya Stattmann:

instead they're trying to achieve these high states of enlightenment

Sonya Stattmann:

or these like they're trying to

Sonya Stattmann:

escape, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

It's

Sonya Stattmann:

just like another form of escape.

Sonya Stattmann:

And it's always drove me crazy cuz I've always said, I'm here for a reason.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like I'm on this earth.

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm present, I'm in a human form, I'm in a human body.

Sonya Stattmann:

There's a reason for that and I think that, you know, we can use

Sonya Stattmann:

that framework of like embodied spirituality or grounded spirituality

Sonya Stattmann:

versus, you know, ungrounded

Sonya Stattmann:

spirituality or.

Sonya Stattmann:

Disembody.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah,

Sonya Stattmann:

disembodied, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Like, it's escapism.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's just another thing.

Sonya Stattmann:

I mean, and our ego is so

Sonya Stattmann:

beautifully

Sonya Stattmann:

smart.

Sonya Stattmann:

You know, like I, I'm not one to say the ego is bad.

Sonya Stattmann:

We need it, it has a proper place in our, in our experience, and it's

Sonya Stattmann:

wonderfully smart in being able to take anything that we're using,

Sonya Stattmann:

anything that we're practicing.

Sonya Stattmann:

and use it for bypassing and use it to escape

Sonya Stattmann:

and

Sonya Stattmann:

use it to hurt people.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right?

Sonya Stattmann:

So, you

Sonya Stattmann:

know,

Sonya Stattmann:

so many of us have experienced, sometimes, in our spiritual places or

Sonya Stattmann:

in our

Sonya Stattmann:

spiritual communities, some of this going on.

Sonya Stattmann:

And you know, for me, you know, especially growing

Sonya Stattmann:

up in a lot of sort of

Sonya Stattmann:

Christian communities, very

Sonya Stattmann:

religious communities, I really

Sonya Stattmann:

rejected all spirituality.

Sonya Stattmann:

I was like, Okay, I'm done with all of this.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's

Sonya Stattmann:

incongruent.

Sonya Stattmann:

There's really mean people, people aren't very embodied.

Sonya Stattmann:

I didn't use those words, but, you know, I could feel

Sonya Stattmann:

that and it, it took me a long time to come back to

Sonya Stattmann:

understand that spirituality is not that

Belinda Haan:

Yes.

Belinda Haan:

exactly, And it's sort of always coming back to our intention about

Belinda Haan:

why we're even bothering, You know, like, are we doing it to

Belinda Haan:

feel better?

Belinda Haan:

Which I honestly really feel like that was my intention for many years unconsciously,

Belinda Haan:

Or are we doing it so that we can show up?

Belinda Haan:

And make the most, like Mary Oliver talks about, what are you gonna do

Belinda Haan:

with this one wild and precious life.

Belinda Haan:

Like that to me is the intention of spirituality, is like, it's not

Belinda Haan:

about, you know, in our next life being better or having a better life.

Belinda Haan:

It's about this life and just really making the most of it.

Belinda Haan:

And that is my

Belinda Haan:

goal

Belinda Haan:

and intention for even bothering.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yes.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I think really grounded spirituality, it

Sonya Stattmann:

brings us to moral aliveness, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Like that's the, that's the piece.

Sonya Stattmann:

it brings us to moral

Sonya Stattmann:

aliveness, And there's no bypassing of the feelings.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's, you're not sitting in bliss all the time.

Sonya Stattmann:

You know, Even, you know, this is one of this.

Sonya Stattmann:

The sort of challenges I've seen, even like with meditation, I love meditation.

Sonya Stattmann:

I think it's beautiful.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I have seen a lot of people practice meditation where they're all zen and

Sonya Stattmann:

they're all like, Oh, I'm a meditator.

Sonya Stattmann:

And then in their, the rest of their life, they're mean spirited.

Sonya Stattmann:

They're not practicing compassion with themselves or others,

Sonya Stattmann:

you know, they're judgemental.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like, so it's this really interesting, reframe around it, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

so that we can recognize that, first of all, it's always a practice.

Sonya Stattmann:

So all of us are gonna be judgemental at times.

Sonya Stattmann:

All of us are gonna be.

Sonya Stattmann:

But owning that process and recognizing that embracing our

Sonya Stattmann:

spirituality in a grounded or an embodied way is really about.

Sonya Stattmann:

Being, like you said, with anything that surfaces, with any content that comes up,

Sonya Stattmann:

and sometimes that will be blissful and

Sonya Stattmann:

sometimes that will be torture

Sonya Stattmann:

and it's just,

Sonya Stattmann:

it's just being

Sonya Stattmann:

with it.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right?

Belinda Haan:

Yes.

Belinda Haan:

Yes, absolutely.

Belinda Haan:

And I think it's you know, alarm

Belinda Haan:

bells should be ringing if you're ever

Belinda Haan:

in a spiritual community that.

Belinda Haan:

Says this is the one way to, to do things, and then everything is

Belinda Haan:

gonna be fine.

Belinda Haan:

And you know, one of

Belinda Haan:

the, one of the practical

Belinda Haan:

ways of sort

Belinda Haan:

of accessing

Belinda Haan:

spirituality, I think, is practicing humility And realizing that we're all

Belinda Haan:

flawed human beings and you know, that we.

Belinda Haan:

Both strengths and limitations.

Belinda Haan:

And by really sort of owning that and embodying that and realizing

Belinda Haan:

that, it's not just me, because I definitely have gone towards the,

Belinda Haan:

you know, everyone's better than me and I'm the

Belinda Haan:

worst.

Belinda Haan:

Um, but, you know, looking at a really

Belinda Haan:

balanced

Belinda Haan:

perspective and then that helps you to realize that.

Belinda Haan:

Common humanity.

Belinda Haan:

We are all flawed.

Belinda Haan:

You know, um, Kristen Neff talks about being a compassionate mess, and I think

Belinda Haan:

that just really resonates that we're all.

Belinda Haan:

on this

Belinda Haan:

journey.

Belinda Haan:

There

Belinda Haan:

is

Belinda Haan:

no perfect all.

Sonya Stattmann:

That's right.

Sonya Stattmann:

There's no

Sonya Stattmann:

perfect,

Sonya Stattmann:

there's no having it all together.

Sonya Stattmann:

There's no, you know, non messy, There's no organized way to do it all.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's, it's a journey.

Sonya Stattmann:

And, and I think that that's part of, you know, that connectedness

Sonya Stattmann:

we talk about in spirituality is recognizing that we're not alone.

Sonya Stattmann:

Recognizing that we're very much connected with other people.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I think, I also see the opposite of that, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

When we are comparing ourselves and disconnecting to other people

Sonya Stattmann:

because we feel like, Oh, we're the only person experiencing this,

Sonya Stattmann:

or We're the biggest loser here.

Sonya Stattmann:

Or like, that's a way we're disconnected to our spiritual

Sonya Stattmann:

realm, and it's a sign, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

A sign that we need to reconnect to something bigger than souls.

Sonya Stattmann:

Reconnect to that

Sonya Stattmann:

essential nature,

Sonya Stattmann:

reconnect to compassion, reconnect to this idea

Sonya Stattmann:

that we're all in and together.

Belinda Haan:

Yes, absolutely.

Belinda Haan:

And one of the things that I really value about Yoga Nidra, which

Belinda Haan:

I've trained in, is that they,

Belinda Haan:

they talk

Belinda Haan:

about, um, that we have pointers to that that come into our life pointers, to

Belinda Haan:

our disconnection, if you like.

Belinda Haan:

And they're just messengers.

Belinda Haan:

They're just coming here.

Belinda Haan:

So the messenger might be.

Belinda Haan:

I'm

Belinda Haan:

not good enough or I need more

Belinda Haan:

time, or I have to do more.

Belinda Haan:

I need to be more, I need to do things

Belinda Haan:

differently.

Belinda Haan:

That's actually just a pointer

Belinda Haan:

that's sort of highlighting that we've disconnected from our central

Belinda Haan:

self.

Belinda Haan:

That they're all just conditioned kind of responses that can either be from

Belinda Haan:

our

Belinda Haan:

own conditioning, but also let's not

Belinda Haan:

forget we sit in a society that's full of messages about how we should be and all

Belinda Haan:

of that, like, it's literally just like a

Belinda Haan:

little pointed to say, rather than, Oh my gosh, I'm feeling

Belinda Haan:

this way of resisting, judging,

Belinda Haan:

disconnecting from ourselves even further

Belinda Haan:

by.

Belinda Haan:

Self criticism and all of that, we

Belinda Haan:

can just practice.

Belinda Haan:

And it is a practice just going, Oh, isn't that interesting?

Belinda Haan:

I've, I've disconnected.

Belinda Haan:

What can I do from a compassionate perspective to support that reconnection,

Belinda Haan:

to sort of come back to that wholeness that that already exists,

Sonya Stattmann:

Mm.

Belinda Haan:

of being.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah, Yeah, I love that.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I, I wanna kind of like pull a thread to something that I think a

Sonya Stattmann:

lot about and I'd love to know kind of your perspective on it as well.

Sonya Stattmann:

I teach a lot about, you know, sort of burnout or energy management and, you

Sonya Stattmann:

know, one of the things I talk about is that we can't really compartmentalize

Sonya Stattmann:

the different parts of ourselves, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

So we have a spiritual part, we have an emotional part, we

Sonya Stattmann:

have a mental part, we have a

Sonya Stattmann:

physical part, and you know, a lot of people,

Sonya Stattmann:

Try to compartmentalize all those pieces and so we, we deem that the spiritual

Sonya Stattmann:

part might not be important, might not be something we need to think

Sonya Stattmann:

about on a

Sonya Stattmann:

daily basis.

Sonya Stattmann:

Maybe we just do it once in a while and we don't recognize the

Sonya Stattmann:

impact

Sonya Stattmann:

that each one of

Sonya Stattmann:

these parts has on the whole, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Like we, we

Sonya Stattmann:

can't be

Sonya Stattmann:

completely disconnected in our spiritual realm and then be fully

Sonya Stattmann:

connected everywhere else, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

It's like that disconnection.

Sonya Stattmann:

Filters in and spills over into every area of our lives.

Sonya Stattmann:

So what I see a lot, especially in working with leaders or business owners

Sonya Stattmann:

is that a lot of time they focus on kind

Sonya Stattmann:

of those

Sonya Stattmann:

other three areas are really mostly the physical area and their mental

Sonya Stattmann:

area and their spiritual area.

Sonya Stattmann:

They kind of

Sonya Stattmann:

just.

Sonya Stattmann:

I don't know, put on hold or put not as a priority, and yet it's

Sonya Stattmann:

impacting

Sonya Stattmann:

and

Sonya Stattmann:

affecting every other experience they're having in their lives.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so

Sonya Stattmann:

what do you

Sonya Stattmann:

think about that?

Sonya Stattmann:

Like, cuz I I think some of our listeners sometimes are gonna be

Sonya Stattmann:

like, Oh, I don't know.

Sonya Stattmann:

I don't know.

Sonya Stattmann:

about this topic.

Sonya Stattmann:

You know, tell

Sonya Stattmann:

tell

Sonya Stattmann:

us, you know, why this is

Sonya Stattmann:

impactful for me right

Sonya Stattmann:

now.

Belinda Haan:

Yes.

Belinda Haan:

Yeah.

Belinda Haan:

It's such a, it's such a great question.

Belinda Haan:

And what's sort of arising is, the, the practice of integrative

Belinda Haan:

restoration yoga nidra, uh, has been so since so much benefit for

Belinda Haan:

PTSD sufferers and all of that, and.

Belinda Haan:

Bear with me when I sort of pull out the thread here is that you can have

Belinda Haan:

all of our thoughts and emotions and everything arise, but by connecting

Belinda Haan:

with the spiritual dimension of ourselves, we, we get to experience.

Belinda Haan:

Our wholeness whilst we are experiencing the content of our lives.

Belinda Haan:

And that has, that has been one of the most beautiful, um, bits

Belinda Haan:

of feedback that's come from.

Belinda Haan:

Yoga Nitra is that, um, these people that come back from war who have got so

Belinda Haan:

much, um, trauma, they can connect with that innate wholeness that is unchanged

Belinda Haan:

by anything that they've experienced or any action that they have done.

Belinda Haan:

So to me, it's like the most resourceful and resilient practice

Belinda Haan:

to deepen into this connection of

Belinda Haan:

wholeness.

Belinda Haan:

because no matter what we're experiencing, all of the fear and doubt

Belinda Haan:

and everything will always come up.

Belinda Haan:

And the ways that we feel like we've failed or imposter syndrome, all of

Belinda Haan:

that is in our experience and we're not getting rid of that, but we can

Belinda Haan:

hold it with a greater awareness and a greater sense of being held

Sonya Stattmann:

yeah.

Sonya Stattmann:

I love that.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's like, I kind of see like the spiritual realm, like you're,

Sonya Stattmann:

you know, as you're describing, it's like it's the container.

Belinda Haan:

It's the container.

Sonya Stattmann:

That can kind of hold everything and

Sonya Stattmann:

one of the ways

Sonya Stattmann:

that I define spirituality

Sonya Stattmann:

is the way we make meaning of

Sonya Stattmann:

things, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

But it's different coming from the spiritual

Sonya Stattmann:

realm than it is coming from our mental realm.

Sonya Stattmann:

Now, our mind, our.

Sonya Stattmann:

Thinking mind

Sonya Stattmann:

wants to make a meaning out of everything.

Sonya Stattmann:

But often those connections

Sonya Stattmann:

are rooted in patterns.

Sonya Stattmann:

They're rooted in false

Sonya Stattmann:

beliefs.

Sonya Stattmann:

They're, you know, the thinking mind holds kind of all those

Sonya Stattmann:

false structures, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

All

Sonya Stattmann:

those.

Sonya Stattmann:

Patterns of indoctrination that we've had.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so when we're trying to make

Sonya Stattmann:

meaning from that lower place, from the,

Sonya Stattmann:

you know, thinking mind, the meaning is often false or the meaning is

Sonya Stattmann:

not in surface to ourselves or the meaning is not true, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

It's based on some small self we think we have or some definition

Sonya Stattmann:

we

Sonya Stattmann:

have versus when we're making

Sonya Stattmann:

meaning from the spiritual self, from that bigger self and we're connected to our

Sonya Stattmann:

real self and.

Sonya Stattmann:

All things.

Sonya Stattmann:

Then the meaning

Sonya Stattmann:

we make is expansive, and the

Sonya Stattmann:

meaning we make is more truthful, and I think

Sonya Stattmann:

that's a really key point to this

Sonya Stattmann:

process.

Belinda Haan:

absolutely.

Belinda Haan:

And as we increase our spiritual sensitivity, it becomes so obvious.

Belinda Haan:

When we are operating from that conditioned response because we

Belinda Haan:

feel constricted at jaws tied and, and our minds are just

Belinda Haan:

going, going, going like this.

Belinda Haan:

versus it just actually, it's almost like there's, there's so much neutrality

Belinda Haan:

to it.

Belinda Haan:

It's just like an equanimity of Yes.

Belinda Haan:

Like it is, This is just it.

Belinda Haan:

It's like, um, just coming home like that sense.

Belinda Haan:

It's ordinary in a way, and, and also just that felt sense of yes.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah, I agree.

Sonya Stattmann:

I don't know.

Sonya Stattmann:

You always feel at home when you're connected, like that's

Sonya Stattmann:

part of that spirituality.

Sonya Stattmann:

And, and also what I often

Sonya Stattmann:

like to discern between spirituality and traditional religion or,

Sonya Stattmann:

or, you know, and not everyone's experience of religion is the same.

Sonya Stattmann:

So some people have a beautiful spiritual connection to their religion as

Sonya Stattmann:

well, and other people don't.

Sonya Stattmann:

So, you know, Not, not to make it one way or the other, but I think the

Sonya Stattmann:

difference in the distinction is that when you are connected spiritually,

Sonya Stattmann:

you are expanded, you are open, you feel connected to things you feel.

Sonya Stattmann:

At peace with the world, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

there is a sense of something that everything's okay, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

There's this, you know, glorious feeling, and then sometimes in certain

Sonya Stattmann:

religions or in certain people's experience with religion, they've had

Sonya Stattmann:

experiences where they felt constricted.

Sonya Stattmann:

They felt, You know, forced to do things or they felt like

Sonya Stattmann:

they couldn't be themselves and that that is not spirituality.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so I think, you know, it's good to kind of

Sonya Stattmann:

distinguish between those so that we can understand that if you have had

Sonya Stattmann:

traumatic or bad experiences with spirituality or religion, that doesn't

Sonya Stattmann:

have to be how you carry forward.

Sonya Stattmann:

There can be a new definition, a

Sonya Stattmann:

new way to look at it that still connects that spiritual

Sonya Stattmann:

self.

Belinda Haan:

Yes, absolutely.

Belinda Haan:

And, and really as

Belinda Haan:

we.

Belinda Haan:

Engage in spirituality is

Belinda Haan:

really like I coming back to compassion, but really

Belinda Haan:

having that connection

Belinda Haan:

with ourselves to

Belinda Haan:

uncover whether this is working for

Belinda Haan:

me or not.

Belinda Haan:

and you know, I had, I was really interested in Buddhism

Belinda Haan:

and, and from a very young age,

Belinda Haan:

very interested in Buddhism and continue to be interested in

Belinda Haan:

Buddhism, but I had to take a break

Belinda Haan:

about

Belinda Haan:

two years off from Buddhism because I

Belinda Haan:

realized that.

Belinda Haan:

from a nervous system perspective, I just could

Belinda Haan:

not do the eightfold path or do the, you know, I just, I was

Belinda Haan:

using

Belinda Haan:

the, the wisdom, the beautiful

Belinda Haan:

wisdom

Belinda Haan:

of

Belinda Haan:

Buddhism as another, um, yard stick

Belinda Haan:

of how much I'm failing, you know, And I simplified.

Belinda Haan:

The teachings of Buddhism in a way, like I'm just, you know, I'm just not having

Belinda Haan:

right view when actually what I really needed to do is really support building

Belinda Haan:

internal capacity to be able to be with myself and to be with the present moment.

Belinda Haan:

and I had to do a lot of, you know, I did somatic experiencing to

Belinda Haan:

really be able to experience a present moment fully, because it's

Belinda Haan:

not actually easy and it's one of those terms that people talk

Belinda Haan:

about, you know, being present.

Belinda Haan:

But it actually is a journey in, in and of itself to be able to,

Belinda Haan:

have the direct experience of what's happening and not freak out.

Belinda Haan:

That was my experience

Belinda Haan:

anyway.

Sonya Stattmann:

I can relate to that.

Sonya Stattmann:

I think, I love in our world now that more of the language we're using, like

Sonya Stattmann:

even on this podcast is more recognizable.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like more people are talking about it.

Sonya Stattmann:

And a lot of times some of the language we're using for

Sonya Stattmann:

spirituality is very surface, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Like people haven't had the direct experience

Sonya Stattmann:

with it.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so like you, like you said, being present is a great example

Sonya Stattmann:

of that because, I try to

Sonya Stattmann:

practice presence a lot and

Sonya Stattmann:

, it's like

Sonya Stattmann:

a constant like challenge, a constant skill building.

Sonya Stattmann:

And some moments I have it and I'm like, Ooh, ooh, this is the direct experience

Sonya Stattmann:

at the moment, and then I lose it again.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so, you know, all of these things I

Sonya Stattmann:

think, Is important to understand that these are practices and

Sonya Stattmann:

you know, these are things that we're gonna spend a lifetime

Sonya Stattmann:

exploring.

Sonya Stattmann:

And that, you know, some

Sonya Stattmann:

of these

Sonya Stattmann:

things are really difficult, especially in a world that

Sonya Stattmann:

has

Sonya Stattmann:

taught us that the opposite is what's valued.

Sonya Stattmann:

That the opposite is how we should operate.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so, you know, we're having to learn completely new skills

Sonya Stattmann:

that open us up to vulnerability.

Belinda Haan:

Mm-hmm.

Sonya Stattmann:

that really opened us up to things we've ignored, things we haven't

Sonya Stattmann:

healed trauma that we have not named, and so I think all of these pieces are

Sonya Stattmann:

really important, to acknowledge as we're

Sonya Stattmann:

approaching a spiritual

Sonya Stattmann:

journey.

Belinda Haan:

Yes, absolutely.

Belinda Haan:

And it's, you know, it's easy for people to sort of say,

Belinda Haan:

just be vulnerable, you know?

Belinda Haan:

But that actually is, that has been a really.

Belinda Haan:

Massive journey for me because vulnerability felt like annihilation,

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah,

Belinda Haan:

and, and even, you know, one of the core aspects of

Belinda Haan:

mindfulness is being able to welcome whatever's present in our experience,

Belinda Haan:

whether that's big emotions or not.

Belinda Haan:

Well, if your nervous system feels so in threat constantly,

Belinda Haan:

then how can you welcome.

Belinda Haan:

These big emotions like anger and despair and, and

Belinda Haan:

so that, that embodiment

Belinda Haan:

piece and sort

Belinda Haan:

of being able, like if, if spirituality's not working for you or you are not

Belinda Haan:

able to

Belinda Haan:

sort of

Belinda Haan:

do the things

Belinda Haan:

, you know, that, that are like, um,

Belinda Haan:

talked about as, as the

Belinda Haan:

spiritual path.

Belinda Haan:

To

Belinda Haan:

me, it's like, really, It's not your

Belinda Haan:

fault.

Belinda Haan:

You know?

Belinda Haan:

It's, it's actually just a journey of coming home that takes, that

Belinda Haan:

is a slow journey, you know?

Belinda Haan:

I was like, Took my type a , high achieving, I'm gonna

Belinda Haan:

be the best spiritual person.

Belinda Haan:

And I, the breaks were put on really quickly, you know, Um, because I realized

Belinda Haan:

that actually there was, there was a, lot of work to be done, to be able to

Belinda Haan:

inhabit and embody myself in the present

Belinda Haan:

moment.

Sonya Stattmann:

Mm-hmm.

Belinda Haan:

And rather than making myself wrong, which I did for a long

Belinda Haan:

time, it's like just, well, of course, you know, there's things that have happened

Belinda Haan:

to me and you know, there's things that have, um, that have been difficult.

Belinda Haan:

So, of course my nervous systems hypervigilant for danger and danger

Belinda Haan:

might be, you know, a big emotion because perhaps I haven't had the

Belinda Haan:

experience of being held in that, you know, in unconditional love.

Sonya Stattmann:

I mean, we could, we could spend a whole

Sonya Stattmann:

entire

Sonya Stattmann:

podcast talking about like the sympathetic and parasympathetic

Sonya Stattmann:

systems and the nervous system.

Sonya Stattmann:

And you know, I, I think sometimes when we struggle to practice some of the spiritual

Sonya Stattmann:

practices, so maybe that's meditation.

Sonya Stattmann:

Maybe if you try meditation, you just can't do it.

Sonya Stattmann:

You can't sit there, you can't, you know, do it for long periods of

Sonya Stattmann:

time without constantly thinking, or it's just uncomfortable.

Sonya Stattmann:

Sometimes there is steps

Sonya Stattmann:

prior.

Sonya Stattmann:

To those practices, you know, that will be more conducive to connecting you to

Sonya Stattmann:

your essential self and to connecting you to something bigger than yourself.

Sonya Stattmann:

I wanna kind of steer in before we wrap up today.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like, okay, we talked kind of about what spirituality is, what

Sonya Stattmann:

grounded spirituality is, but.

Sonya Stattmann:

How do we start practicing that?

Sonya Stattmann:

Where do we start?

Sonya Stattmann:

Right?

Sonya Stattmann:

And so some of you may already have a very established spiritual practice and it's

Sonya Stattmann:

working for you, and that's fantastic.

Sonya Stattmann:

But I think for some of us, if we don't have that regular practiced kind

Sonya Stattmann:

of spiritual component or everything

Sonya Stattmann:

we've tried hasn't worked for us.

Sonya Stattmann:

where can we start?

Belinda Haan:

Yes.

Belinda Haan:

Oh my goodness.

Belinda Haan:

It's such a great question and I think, you know, it starts with.

Belinda Haan:

Creating space

Belinda Haan:

for us To be

Belinda Haan:

with

Belinda Haan:

ourselves and in whatever form that?

Belinda Haan:

takes, like I would say, even though I teach meditation, I'm

Belinda Haan:

not actually a natural meditator at all.

Belinda Haan:

I've got such a busy

Belinda Haan:

mind, So, so letting go of any

Belinda Haan:

rules about what it needs to look like, but ultimately, The goal is to

Belinda Haan:

create space for yourself and to connect with yourself.

Belinda Haan:

And so whether

Belinda Haan:

that is, so I find

Belinda Haan:

going for a 30 to

Belinda Haan:

45 minute walk is really

Belinda Haan:

useful because the first 20 minutes is all the thoughts happening,

Belinda Haan:

and then eventually after

Belinda Haan:

20 minutes, they.

Belinda Haan:

Ease.

Belinda Haan:

And I

Belinda Haan:

always do those walks

Belinda Haan:

without listening to anything.

Belinda Haan:

That's been

Belinda Haan:

my new thing because then I can hear

Belinda Haan:

myself,

Belinda Haan:

you know, that's where a lot of internal wisdom is shared for me.

Belinda Haan:

And in the shower of course,

Belinda Haan:

as well,

Belinda Haan:

. So, so it's sort of

Belinda Haan:

And, you know, I even love, I love Oracle cards as a way to connect.

Belinda Haan:

I love guided yoga nidra.

Belinda Haan:

I love embodiment practices, dancing, singing.

Belinda Haan:

You know, listening to music, you know, there's, there's many different

Belinda Haan:

avenues in which that we can connect with ourselves and and journaling.

Belinda Haan:

Oh my goodness.

Belinda Haan:

I know you love journaling.

Belinda Haan:

Journaling is just, yeah, such a amazing way to connect with ourselves and also

Belinda Haan:

wisdom.

Belinda Haan:

Accessing wisdom is just such.

Belinda Haan:

For me, and I don't know, you know, I'm sure many people can relate to

Belinda Haan:

that as well, but accessing wisdom through different teachers, and I

Belinda Haan:

really love Pema Chodron's a really wonderful teacher, especially when you're

Belinda Haan:

sort of starting out on the journey.

Belinda Haan:

And Tara Brock as

Belinda Haan:

well.

Belinda Haan:

And e Kar Tolly.

Belinda Haan:

So just they're, they're some of my favorite teachers, Judith Blackstone.

Belinda Haan:

So there's, accessing wisdom to me just helps me to just move beyond

Belinda Haan:

the thinking, mind and connecting.

Belinda Haan:

What about you?

Belinda Haan:

I'd love to

Belinda Haan:

hear about you.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah.

Sonya Stattmann:

Well, I mean, I think you really hit on, on something that's so

Sonya Stattmann:

important to me, which is that creating space component, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

We can't practice spirituality without space.

Sonya Stattmann:

So, you know, in our normal day to day, we're often like on a clock going from

Sonya Stattmann:

thing to thing, working at our to-do list, worrying about the future in the

Sonya Stattmann:

past, like there is, and there's no space.

Sonya Stattmann:

Well, I think we can't truly connect to ourselves in a pressure cooker.

Sonya Stattmann:

It doesn't work that way.

Sonya Stattmann:

It doesn't happen.

Sonya Stattmann:

So I think creating space in a number of ways where you're able

Sonya Stattmann:

to just be with whatever you're experiencing is really powerful.

Sonya Stattmann:

Now, you know, even when I was doing all of my business programs, I.

Sonya Stattmann:

I didn't talk about spirituality, but I put all these practices into play

Sonya Stattmann:

in every single program I taught.

Sonya Stattmann:

And some of the ways I started people out

Sonya Stattmann:

with contemplation or space or connecting to themselves was journaling.

Sonya Stattmann:

Was going for a walk in nature without headphones, without a podcast in their

Sonya Stattmann:

ears.

Sonya Stattmann:

And you

Sonya Stattmann:

know, I think those things are really important.

Sonya Stattmann:

And then I used to

Sonya Stattmann:

have people go to like a coffee shop and I'd say just go to a coffee

Sonya Stattmann:

shop and

Sonya Stattmann:

sit there for

Sonya Stattmann:

two hours.

Sonya Stattmann:

That's all I want you to do.

Sonya Stattmann:

You can bring paper and pen if you want, but

Sonya Stattmann:

nothing else.

Sonya Stattmann:

Don't get on your phone, double just watch the world around you or

Sonya Stattmann:

feel whatever you feel or whatever.

Sonya Stattmann:

But

Sonya Stattmann:

just, just be there and that is the

Sonya Stattmann:

hardest experience.

Sonya Stattmann:

I mean, people will come back

Sonya Stattmann:

to me and be like, That's impossible, Sonya.

Sonya Stattmann:

I can't do it.

Sonya Stattmann:

I'm like, Just try it again.

Sonya Stattmann:

Just try it again.

Sonya Stattmann:

I, I promise you'll get to a

Sonya Stattmann:

point where you won't be able to live

Sonya Stattmann:

without that time again.

Sonya Stattmann:

Right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Like once you taste it, once you feel it once, once,

Sonya Stattmann:

it actually kind of get past that initial resistance, that initial

Sonya Stattmann:

fear, and then you, you have a direct connection with what it

Sonya Stattmann:

feels like to just be present, whatever that looks like for you.

Sonya Stattmann:

You

Sonya Stattmann:

can't live without it.

Sonya Stattmann:

Again, it's like that reference point is

Sonya Stattmann:

absolutely

Sonya Stattmann:

essential.

Belinda Haan:

absolutely

Belinda Haan:

essential.

Belinda Haan:

Like I could just, I really don't think that you can even connect

Belinda Haan:

with yourself without space.

Belinda Haan:

I just don't think it's really possible.

Belinda Haan:

And, and I know myself, you know, I'm just such a learner and I can feel

Belinda Haan:

in my body when I've just consuming too much , and that's like a, a

Belinda Haan:

signal to just stop everything and.

Belinda Haan:

Reconnect and, you know, and, and that that reconnection, especially when we're

Belinda Haan:

first starting, can be kind of alarming in a way because we can go, Oh my gosh,

Belinda Haan:

look at all these thoughts that I'm having about myself and about the world.

Belinda Haan:

And that can feel

Belinda Haan:

painful.

Sonya Stattmann:

Mm-hmm.

Belinda Haan:

just, that's how default mode network.

Belinda Haan:

So when we're actually at rest is when our mind just go.

Belinda Haan:

So kind of expecting that that actually is our experience.

Belinda Haan:

And I think a lot of people.

Belinda Haan:

Believe that spirituality or meditation is about being clear of thoughts?

Belinda Haan:

No.

Belinda Haan:

it's actually just being mindful.

Sonya Stattmann:

That's right.

Sonya Stattmann:

That is absolutely true.

Sonya Stattmann:

You know, I often teach my clients over the years the candle exercise.

Sonya Stattmann:

I don't know if we ever talked about that.

Sonya Stattmann:

You know, years ago, but you know, the candle exercise is basically like

Sonya Stattmann:

you, you put a candle, you can use anything where you can focus on it.

Sonya Stattmann:

You have a piece of paper in front of you, you have a pen, and every time you

Sonya Stattmann:

veer your attention away from the candle, you bring your attention back to the

Sonya Stattmann:

flame and you put a little mark, little check mark or whatever on your paper.

Sonya Stattmann:

And for so long everyone thought that, you know, the.

Sonya Stattmann:

Outcome of this process was supposed to be less checks, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Less check marks, less leaving the candle flame, you know,

Sonya Stattmann:

more focus on the candle flame.

Sonya Stattmann:

But what happens is you get to more and more layers of awareness.

Sonya Stattmann:

Of where your attention is drawn away from what you're trying to focus on.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so what actually happens is as you get better at the candle exercise,

Sonya Stattmann:

you have a ton more marks, right.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like .And I think that's such a great example of how a lot of

Sonya Stattmann:

spirituality is not being calm all the time, or it's not, you know, like

Sonya Stattmann:

not having thoughts or it's not, you know, we think that there's like some

Sonya Stattmann:

outcome like that, but instead it's.

Sonya Stattmann:

More awareness and more mindfulness about what?

Sonya Stattmann:

What's always been there.

Sonya Stattmann:

And you know, like it was really funny when I first did the candle

Sonya Stattmann:

exercise.

Sonya Stattmann:

This was like, I don't know, more than a decade ago.

Sonya Stattmann:

and I was practicing it and practicing it and

Sonya Stattmann:

practicing it.

Sonya Stattmann:

and it was really interesting because as I

Sonya Stattmann:

peel back layers of my mind,

Sonya Stattmann:

I started to recognize that like I was having arguments in the back of my mind.

Sonya Stattmann:

They were probably running.

Sonya Stattmann:

All the time, but I didn't hear them right.

Sonya Stattmann:

I didn't hear them.

Sonya Stattmann:

I didn't pay attention to them.

Sonya Stattmann:

And as I started to free all of that, I started to become

Sonya Stattmann:

more aware of all of that.

Sonya Stattmann:

Then I could have a little bit more of a still mind, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

I could have more control over my attention.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so, You know, I think that we have to talk about this because

Sonya Stattmann:

so often, you know, it kind of reminds me of like, inbox zero.

Sonya Stattmann:

You know, like a lot of people are trying to like, get their emails to zero.

Sonya Stattmann:

I feel like in spirituality they're trying to get their thoughts to zero.

Sonya Stattmann:

that is not

Sonya Stattmann:

reality.

Sonya Stattmann:

that's not

Sonya Stattmann:

realistic.

Belinda Haan:

That is not realistic at all.

Belinda Haan:

And you know, if someone finds the answer that let me know, but I, But really the,

Belinda Haan:

the, like you said, the intention is about being aware of what was already there

Belinda Haan:

before we were doing any of these things.

Belinda Haan:

It's just that we become, we, we grow in our, awareness and we grow in our ability.

Belinda Haan:

Notice it with humor and compassion and you know, Oh, look at that, you

Belinda Haan:

know, self criticism is here again.

Belinda Haan:

And just connect back in with what's important with us.

Belinda Haan:

So we don't, don't resist all of those thoughts.

Belinda Haan:

We don't judge ourselves it and all that.

Belinda Haan:

It's actually just about then going, Oh, look at all that content.

Belinda Haan:

And then connecting with, with what's required from, from us In

Belinda Haan:

that moment.

Sonya Stattmann:

A hundred percent.

Sonya Stattmann:

And I, I think that, you know, kind of like we've talked about before,

Sonya Stattmann:

I think compassion is a really important practice of spirituality.

Sonya Stattmann:

It's a whole path to spirituality and, you know, if.

Sonya Stattmann:

If you want to take nothing else from this, if you just wanna

Sonya Stattmann:

practice a little more compassion

Sonya Stattmann:

with yourself, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Don't even worry about compassion for others.

Sonya Stattmann:

Like, don't

Sonya Stattmann:

even

Sonya Stattmann:

worry about that.

Sonya Stattmann:

If you just wanna practice a little more

Sonya Stattmann:

compassion with yourself, that

Sonya Stattmann:

takes you down a whole spiritual journey that connects you to that,

Sonya Stattmann:

essential self And something bigger than

Sonya Stattmann:

yourself automatically.

Sonya Stattmann:

so there's very

Sonya Stattmann:

simple

Sonya Stattmann:

things you can do to

Sonya Stattmann:

reconnect to

Sonya Stattmann:

your

Sonya Stattmann:

spiritual realm, but you have to create the

Sonya Stattmann:

space.

Belinda Haan:

Yes, absolutely.

Belinda Haan:

And you know, there's a, there's a great quote by Karen Armstrong that talks about

Belinda Haan:

compassion being the true test of our

Belinda Haan:

spirituality.

Belinda Haan:

When we can be compassionate with ourselves and others, that is the test.

Belinda Haan:

It's not accessing higher realms or anything like that.

Belinda Haan:

In my personal experience, it's really, it's really that .You know,

Belinda Haan:

how can we be, that's how we know whether we're making progress.

Sonya Stattmann:

Yes, that's right.

Sonya Stattmann:

And compassion for self and for others, right?

Sonya Stattmann:

Like it's both.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so, cuz I know so many people who are so compassionate with others and

Sonya Stattmann:

not compassionate with themselves.

Sonya Stattmann:

And so it really is that, that key is both

Belinda Haan:

Yes, yes, yes, yes, exactly.

Sonya Stattmann:

Well, this has been an amazing conversation.

Sonya Stattmann:

I could talk about this all day.

Sonya Stattmann:

Anything that you want to, you know, kind of finish saying.

Sonya Stattmann:

Any last thoughts before we wrap up for today?

Belinda Haan:

gosh, it's, it's been, yeah.

Belinda Haan:

So beautiful talking to you about this topic and you know, I really, I really

Belinda Haan:

think if people are just curious, then just follow that curiosity and, you

Belinda Haan:

know, start small, you know, go for walks without listening to something . You

Belinda Haan:

know, like I find that that can be the best spiritual practice for me every day.

Belinda Haan:

Because then we get to hear that little voice that's so wise within

Belinda Haan:

us, and that's our essential self

Sonya Stattmann:

Yeah.

Sonya Stattmann:

That's beautiful.

Sonya Stattmann:

Thank you Melin, and thank you all for listening, and we will see you next week.

Belinda Haan:

I hope you enjoyed the show.

Belinda Haan:

If you wanna learn more about this topic, head over to Belinda ha.com.

Belinda Haan:

You can sign up for my newsletter to be the first to find out about my

Belinda Haan:

classes and events have an amazing day, and we'll see you next time.

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About Sonya Stattmann

Sonya has spent the last 24 years working with thousands of individuals, leaders & organizations around personal development. She offers resilience-based tools for stress management, mental wellness, navigating change, and dealing with relationship challenges. She currently works 1:1 with founders, leaders & high achievers through her stress management coaching program. She also offers wellness & resilience workshops for teams. She also hosts both public and private podcasts. Her mission is to help individuals and teams build more resilience and navigate adversity, change & stress more effectively. She currently resides in the USA, but you can often find her and her family traveling the globe.

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